SamusDrake
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A more powerful Pi model.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:56 pm

The Raspberry Pi is a wonderful machine, and most certainly one I know the computing community is very proud of.

We now have quite a few Pi models for different purposes, and the Foundation has maintained an excellent commitment to keep the price fair, so that all can afford the machine and to the point where it is easy for someone to donate one to those who can't.

With that in mind, I can't help but wonder if we would see another Pi variant; for those of us who really don't mind paying a little extra for a more powerful model. Obviously such a machine could not maintain the "credit card size" of the current Pis, so naturally the board would have to be bigger.

As the Foundation introduced the Pi Zero, would it be out of the question to see a "Pi Advance"? I suppose a stronger GPU and 2GB ram would be at the top of many wish lists. I do wonder what could be possible for about £55...

Still, this may not be compatibile with the Foundation's goals and I would be first to respect them. I just feel that we are expecting too much from a "Pi 4", and that a new variant would be a better solution.

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rpdom
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:24 pm

"When is the next Pi due out?" and "Will it have/It should have pink fluffy unicorns" are regular thread topics here. They usually get locked fairly quickly with the standard response "Be patient. Wait and see. There are plans, you will love them when they are ready, but until then we are saying nothing."

This is the way things are. Announcing plans too early can cause chaos, especially when something unforeseen happens and those plans go to pot. Better to wait and get a lovely surprise :-)

The best we know is that there will be another machine of some sort, probably a more powerful Pi, most likely as compatible as possible with the current range, but not for another couple of years (probably - we do get some nice unexpected surprises sometimes).

SamusDrake
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:38 pm

You know, I would never have thought of the possibilities one could do with a Pi that has pink fluffy unicorns! I think you're on to something there!

Seriously though, I was hoping the idea of a variant would be less trouble than another unrealistic request for a Pi 4.

Thats cool beans, though.

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CarlRJ
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:13 am

SamusDrake wrote:As the Foundation introduced the Pi Zero, would it be out of the question to see a "Pi Advance"? I suppose a stronger GPU and 2GB ram would be at the top of many wish lists. I do wonder what could be possible for about £55...
The Pi Advance you describe could possibly sell for £55... after spending several million £'s creating a new SoC. The current SoC has a hard upper limit on memory, so it must be replaced to get that 2GB of ram, and the current GPU is intertwined with the CPU inside the SoC. So, again, they'd need a new, suitable SoC designed, (extensively) tested, and produced, in order to add the features you want.

The general consensus is that the elves at Pi Towers are working on an updated SoC, and maybe we'll see something (nominally a Pi 4) in a year or two. But this is mostly conjecture. In the meantime, there are so many cool things one can do with the existing Pi family, I can't imagine running out of projects. And, if you need more horsepower in a hurry, there are plenty of small PCs that could run the x86 version of Raspbian Desktop. If you need massive CPU horsepower and the Pi's GPIO (or other interfaces), that's a perfect situation for writing networked apps with the CPU intensive parts running on the x86 and the IO parts running on the Pi. Things to learn, interesting skills to practice... educational (thus going back to the original purpose of the Pi).

Beware the Pink Ponies and Unicorns - they're like the Silver Surfer presaging the arrival of the mods to lock the thread. Personally, I'd absolutely love to see a special Pi (any existing model, their choice - I'd vote for 3B or 0W), with a pink circuit board with suitable unicorn/pony artwork silkscreened somewhere on it. It'd sell dozens to the locals here (and there's about a 10% chance that "Pink Unicorn Pi" goes viral on reddit or somewhere and they sell a million of them).

pageauc
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:22 am

I would like to see USB3 or c support event if it took a second Power supply. Still would like at least two USB3/c ports. If you are redoing the GPU then how about 4k support.
GitHub - https://github.com/pageauc
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/pageaucp

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CarlRJ
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:03 am

pageauc wrote:I would like to see USB3 or c support event if it took a second Power supply. Still would like at least two USB3/c ports. If you are redoing the GPU then how about 4k support.
The factor preventing USB3 (or C) is that the IO path into the current SoC for that is a single USB2 interface. So, again, the only practical way to get USB3 is to replace the SoC. (On the plus side, interested tea leaf readers have voted USB3 the most likely addition to the rumored eventual silicon for an eventual Pi 4.)

And if you continue to speak of things like 4K support, and make this an "I want the Pi 4 to have" thread, the Pink Ponies and Unicorns will become restless and mods will manifest and lock the thread (no mortal alive knows for certain whether the mods come nigh when they hear the Ponies & Unicorns, or if the Ponies & Unicorns sense the approach of the mods and rile up).

W. H. Heydt
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:22 am

Some time back it came out that Dr. Upton was contemplating a "Server Pi" that would cost more and be a more powerful device. He chanced to sit down and talk with one of the Silicon Valley gazillionaires (I forget which one, and it doesn't really matter). Eben was told, "Don't go more expensive. Go cheaper. Aim for free or as close as you can get." The result was the Pi Zero instead of a "server" Pi.

When the Pi3B was launched, Dr. Upton said not to expect the next Pi for "2 to 3 years". Taking him at his word, plus the habit of launching major Pis around the anniversary date, I would expect the "Pi4B" in February or March of either 2018 or 2019.

The most recent Boardcom SoCs to get noticed have some interesting features that *may* point towards the next Pi. They're 28nm devices. They have what is being called a "VC5" that handles H.265, and does 2160p60 video. At least one SoC has USB 3, GbE, and (Good Lord, where did *that* come from?) PCIe. Now I don't expect to see all of that in the Pi, at least not exposed where we can use it. I haven't seen anything about memory address space, but one might well presume that it is well above 1GB.

The one suggestion I think the RPT should avoid is the idea of making the PCB bigger. I think the RPT--and we--should learn to live within the consistent size of the B-series boards. I have a PINE-64+. After working with Pis for a few years, the thing looks positively *enormous*. I don't think the Pi should go that route.

Personally, the only feature that I think is truly needed is faster I/O and the most logical candidate that I can think of--given the history and characteristics of the Pi--would be USB3. More memory and GbE would be nice to have, but are not actually needed. I think people would find that faster I/O will improve the Pi considerably and open up uses that have been marginal to unworkable to date.

So...given what is known about newer Broadcom SoCs, my expectations and possibilities are: 28nm, VC5 (2160p60 video), USB3, *maybe* GbE, *maybe* more RAM (or at least the possibility of a "mid-life kicker" of more RAM).

Meanwhile, the engineers (both hardware and software) at Pi Towers are undoubtedly very, very hard at work to bring everything together for the next Pi and will surprise us in one or more pleasing ways when it launches. I look forward the RPF/RPT teams going from success to even greater success in the future and being recognized in many prominent ways for their efforts.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:20 am

The VC5 used in set top box chip does 4K, likely it will address more than 1GB.
The videocore has been updated - cost of $20M was one figure.
But since 4K is were STB's are then BCM would have paid this cost.
Adding the stuff RPF needs, camera, CSI, LCD DSI, bigger cpu's. $$$$ for RPF

The word is the roadmap has really really cool and surprising stuff on it.
VC5 plus 64 bit cpus across the range Zero to 4?
Pink Fuffy Unicorns and Pi's go together.

Dates of release probably now depend on manufacturing ramping up and the software working/ported.
Pink, purple, black PCBs? We have had green, red, blue so far. Why not the full rainbow ;)

It has all been spoken about before, over and over again.
The one new thing we know, there is V5 in silicon, that is great news.

We know Eben had a hand in designing the VC5, would BCM listen to his input?
Has anyone noticed Eben has been a bit absent in the news last 6 months or so?
New baby will do that, but has he been spending some of that time in the RPF Skunkworks?

Clues of the future here?
https://liliputing.com/2017/05/52-pi-de ... te-pc.html
Probably means the Pi4 will be keeping the same footprint.
Old interviews with Eben about Pi's on the Desktop, hints too?
That is a game changer, especially if it can play games.
Vulkan will probably work on VC5, could it be back ported to VC4.

VR headset with a Pi in it? Mini Steam Box, Roblox on Pi.
Gaming on Set top boxes? Stepping into Unicorn territory?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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bensimmo
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:50 am

I want a Rainbow circuit board, that's all.

the1maximus
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:52 am

Hello All,

I'm fairly new to the whole Pie thing, but I want to say that I'm in Love :D

Anyway, to follow suite with this topic, Id love to see the next Pie, to be slimmed down similar to the 0w. But with the power of the 3. What i mean by that, is remove the USBs, ethernet, 3.5mm, and move to micro OTG port for the USBs and if a separate power source is still needed, then a second MicroUSB power for power only, basically the same as the 0 & 0w. One other addition would be 5 Ghz Wifi. They could keep the form factor of the 3 and just improve on it.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:37 am

SamusDrake wrote:The Raspberry Pi is a wonderful machine, and most certainly one I know the computing community is very proud of.

We now have quite a few Pi models for different purposes, and the Foundation has maintained an excellent commitment to keep the price fair, so that all can afford the machine and to the point where it is easy for someone to donate one to those who can't.

With that in mind, I can't help but wonder if we would see another Pi variant; for those of us who really don't mind paying a little extra for a more powerful model. Obviously such a machine could not maintain the "credit card size" of the current Pis, so naturally the board would have to be bigger.

As the Foundation introduced the Pi Zero, would it be out of the question to see a "Pi Advance"? I suppose a stronger GPU and 2GB ram would be at the top of many wish lists. I do wonder what could be possible for about £55...

Still, this may not be compatibile with the Foundation's goals and I would be first to respect them. I just feel that we are expecting too much from a "Pi 4", and that a new variant would be a better solution.
it has all been discussed before.....

As in all previous Posts regarding pathetic I want because I know better than RPT / RPF, one mantra is backward compatibility, break that and it will incur $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ costs which is not reasonable for a Charity to justify.

At 19:10 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0571tdt


The Asus Tinker Board fills your requirements as does the offerings from Odroid (Hardkernel).....................
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

texy
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Re: A more powerful Pi model.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:41 am

Yeah this subject regularly pops up every few weeks, usually by new members who don't realise that the it has been discussed to death.
Texy
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

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