Benedict White
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:42 am

I just don\'t get how many posts there are that are in effect saying the Raspberry Pi is a bad idea.

These range from comparing the cost of a RP to a cheap Android tablet, with no Android market, no GPIO to a Raspberry Pi with a full price keyboard, mouse, TV etc to showing how cheap someone else can make some application specific unit to the unaffordability of TV\'s in the third world.

I just don\'t get it. The Raspberry Pi was never meant to address those issues, and does an excellent job of not addressing them.

It was and is a BBC Micro replacement.

End of.

Looks good to me. Runs graphics, runs an OS with compilers/scripting language.

Has massive IO ability.

Reuses stuff already around in most of it\'s target market, and if not available for free via Freecyle/recycle type internet groups.

So why does there appear to be campaigners on this forum so against the RaspberryPi? After all, if they don\'t like the idea, they don\'t have to buy one, it isn\'t compulsory.

I can only assume they are trolls.

Narishma
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:50 am

This is the Internet. People will hate anything and everything for no reason. Get used to it.

Benedict White
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:56 am

I am. I have had trolls for years... I just thought I would call them out.

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abishur
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:42 am

H8ters gonna H8
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

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johnbeetem
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:24 am

In general, I have found the level of civility here to be quite high. There are exceptions, of course, but compared to a many technology sites RasPi is very nice community. Sure, there are going to be disagreements about things like programming languages, but those have been pretty civil for the most part. The most heated exchanges I\'ve seen here concern the openness of documentation, which inspired me to come up with the Open Documentation Law:
[quote]In any forum about mostly-open technology, the discussion will eventually degrade into complaining about the parts that are not open.[/quote]
There have been a few rude things written, but I think most who advocate for open documentation really feel it would benefit RasPi and some are frustrated by real world constraints that sometimes seen arbitrary. Computer science is a \"science of the artificial\" and as such often attracts people who don\'t see why the real world should have to constrain itself as much as it does.

Of course, computer science also attracts a number of people with no social graces, but then we all have our gifts. Generally I\'ve found that less-than-civil discourse get pointed out in RasPi fora and people either mend their ways or disappear.

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riffraff
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:43 am

[quote]Quote from abishur on December 24, 2011, 02:42
H8ters gonna H8[/quote]

... and opinions are like a-holes - everybody has one. :D

Might have something to do with the fact that this is as close to a grass-roots movement you\'ll see in this day and age. The incredible simplicity of the device boggles their tiny minds. Computers are supposed to be complex and expensive (not to in any way diminish the complexity of the Broadcom chip you\'re using) and their workings are divinely mysterious and only demigods are permitted to confer the blessings of their power upon the unwashed masses.

The Pi completely demolishes the ivory tower model. High time for that. We once offered blessings to The Steves and The Bill for bringing fire to the people, stealing it from the Temples of IBM and DEC upon high Olympus. We once scoffed at the priests there with their straight-laced shoes who in their blind foolishness boasted of their creations and their prowess in terms of man-hours and lines-of-code. We applauded our New Heroes for the simplicity and affordability of the wares they offered us.

O, how times have changed. Meet the New Boss. Same as the Old Boss. Now it is time to press the reset button. To start over. To pass the torch to a new generation of programmers who, as we once marveled that simple computers once occupied an entire building, will marvel that computers once required a space as large as a desktop.

It\'s new... it\'s Iconoclastic... and it doesn\'t improve one\'s stock portfolio. That\'s reason enough to hate it right there . :)

Piw32
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:10 am

I was the one comparing the cost of a RP to a cheap Android tablet, but i am not a hater nor a troll, i love the Pi ! The only thing i hate is having to wait until i have some display with a HDMI input ! One can emit some criticism without being qualified a \"hater\". Inconditionnal love is only for Apple fans (just trolling!).

dattaway
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:14 am

Computers are supposed to be big, use lots of power, have viruses, and take up half a desk. We have something that will achieve none of these qualities.

g8khf
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:24 am

I can remember the excitement when the first home computers came out. I built several of my own using the Z80, MC6809, etc. Also owned a Nascom, ZX80, Jupiter Ace, Dai, Dragon C64.......
At 56 years old, I have only just found out about this and I am excited again. If it excites even a few youngsters and gets them interested its done its job. Me? oh I will be playing with one asap!!

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Jessie
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:07 am

Haters are going to hate. It\'s their job. If you don\'t have haters then you arn\'t doing your job right.

jamesh
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:57 am

[quote]Quote from dattaway on December 24, 2011, 04:14
Computers are supposed to be big, use lots of power, have viruses, and take up half a desk. We have something that will achieve none of these qualities.[/quote]

Nice one!
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radu
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:17 am

To the OP: Can you show us some of the hate posts, explicitly?

bradburts
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:22 am

Who\'s been dissing the Pi?
Its not even out yet, there are only a few who could comment.
Do they not teach science these days?

PS
Aeroplanes are rubbish, they don\'t float well at all, and try taking one to the shops.......

jamesh
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:41 am

[quote]Quote from radu on December 24, 2011, 10:17
To the OP: Can you show us some of the hate posts, explicitly?[/quote]

I suggest you check Slashdot - plenty on there.
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Johannes
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:00 pm

Geeks are problem seekers. If something is alright, it doesn\'t need to be worked on. That\'s why geeks find fault with everything. It\'s got nothing to do with hate.

Related: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000702

hippy
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:00 pm

[quote]Quote from Benedict White on December 24, 2011, 01:42
So why does there appear to be campaigners on this forum so against the RaspberryPi?[/quote]

Name names, cite evidence. I\'ve not seen any of what you suggest.

There have been criticism of some aspects of the R-Pi - I\'ve made some myself - but I\'d rather hear that criticism and see it addressed than make the ecosystem \'fanbois only\' where only uncritical praise of the R-Pi is welcomed.

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Gert van Loo
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:04 pm

Because criticizing creates a feeling of superiority whilst praising is seen as self diminishing.
In reality it is a sign of lack of self confidence and self esteem.

lokii
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:38 am

It is a piece of technology that forces people to think for themselves rather than have a marketing guru tell them what they can do with it. Hence the people who find fault, can't think creatively, other than create faults.

Why has using your imagination become almost taboo?

I personally think the RPi is the best thing since the spectrum zx, and is something that has been missing for way too long.

My 12 year old son, wants to buy one with his Christmas money, so this will be his first computer he has bought with his own money, as it has been pointed out to me in another post from, this is the whole point of the RPi.

Chris

RobS
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:08 am

G8KHF wrote:

"At 56 years old, I have only just found out about this and I am excited again. If it excites even a few youngsters and gets them interested its done its job. Me? oh I will be playing with one asap!!"

+1 here but just a young 51.  Brought back fond memories of the Electron, BBC and Archimedes.

I'd like to see the schools adopt the Rpi, there's a whole generation that are missing this essential (IMHO) building block in their education.

BlueClogger
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:23 am

Another (almost) geriatric ex-Electron/BBC/RiscPC user.  I don't know how I've missed hearing about he RPi until Xmas Eve on the BBC site, but I'm very excited.  The BBCs are long gone and the RPC festers i the loft.  It was too big to keep for the limited amount I used it, and others in the house wanted/needed to use PCs.  I have TVs with HDMI and composite inputs, and plenty of old bits of hardware lying about.  I love the idea of running RiscOS on a small, cheap piece of hardware, especially if there is a good selection of USB drivers.  I guess the haters (I haven't seen any of their posts) feel threatened.  RiscOS would have ruled the world if it had had a fraction of the development resources that MS & Apple have thrown at their systems.  Maybe in these leaner times there is still an opportunity?

Wooloomooloo
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:33 pm

Gert said:


Because criticizing creates a feeling of superiority whilst praising is seen as self diminishing.
In reality it is a sign of lack of self confidence and self esteem.



A vewwy schmart guy once wrote "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".

Without any sort of claim to even vaguely comparable wit or brainpower, I consider throwing up one's hands with an arrogant "haters gonna hate" to be the last refuge of those with too low self confidence and self esteem to hear any sort of criticism of whatever they are a fan of.

Also, I don't remember seeing all that much of either "hate" or critique around, unless one tends to consider any discussion whatsoever on what might have been done differently and why or indeed any dissenting opinion doubting that everything was/is being done in the absolutely most ideal way conceivable as an "attack".

mengel
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:41 pm

"Without any sort of claim to even vaguely comparable wit or brainpower, I consider throwing up one's hands with an arrogant "haters gonna hate" to be the last refuge of those with too low self confidence and self esteem to hear any sort of criticism of whatever they are a fan of."

Well I'm glad you didn't make any claims

I don't consider the statement "haters gonna hate" to be arrogant. It's just realistic, some people won't be happy no matter what you do. And if you haven't seen it--well you haven't been paying attention. Though a lot of the worst has not been on this forum but in blog posts and other forums where folk who can't or haven't done anything vaguely comparable themselves just have to rip on what others have done. Acknowledging that "that's just what they do" and moving on is  the only way to handle it.

tufty
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:47 pm

Wooloomooloo said:


Also, I don't remember seeing all that much of either "hate" or critique around, unless one tends to consider any discussion whatsoever on what might have been done differently and why or indeed any dissenting opinion doubting that everything was/is being done in the absolutely most ideal way conceivable as an "attack".


Oh, there has certainly been a significant amount of unwarranted and badly thought-out criticism.  It mainly comes from those who have yet to understand what RasPi is supposed to be, and why.  There has been a sustained torrent from one or two posters – quite why they continue to hang out here, given that the Pi will never be what they seem to think they deserve it to be, I have no idea.  This latter group were the original reason why I posted the off-topic thread about whether people actually cared about the goals of the foundation (which, I might add, has produced some very encouraging posts).

Sure, the Pi's not above criticism[1], but most of the things one could criticise are technical, tied to the design, and not things we (or the foundation) can do anything about at this stage.  Lack of VGA, and powering options, fall into this category - there ain't much that can be done about them.  Viewed from above the morass of tiny technical issues and nitpicking, though, Pi is an incredibly positive project.  That's why people get defensive about it.

Simon

[1] Personally, I think the choice of Linux is probably the only really bad choice that's been made[2], but the word "choice" implies there were / are other workable options.

[2] Apart from using Wordpress-based forums :)

bradburts
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:33 pm

I tend to agree.

There have been quite a few 'wouldn't it be nice posts',  mostly technical, more RAM, VGA etc. Some have thought that the RPI will only interest hackers.

There have been one or two rabid conspiracy theories. Best not repeat nonsense.

No-one but no-one has dissed the stated goals of the foundation.

If anyone would care to break the ice......

I have noted that a few are capable of turning discussion into a hate crime though.

Thats scary though, not wierd.

Benedict White
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Re: How come there are so many Raspberry Pi haters?

Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:18 am

Piw32 said:


I was the one comparing the cost of a RP to a cheap Android tablet, but i am not a hater nor a troll, i love the Pi ! The only thing i hate is having to wait until i have some display with a HDMI input ! One can emit some criticism without being qualified a \"hater\". Inconditionnal love is only for Apple fans (just trolling!).


I was thinking of you, in particular, (Though I could trawl for others) in topics like this:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....-50-tablet

It seems obvious to me that the Raspberry Pi does not intend on being a cheap tablet, but a learning device. If you want a cheap tablet, great. Go buy one. Apparently, there are loads around.

It isn't a question of being an unquestioning fan either, but rather obviously no product can cover all bases, for it can't be cheap, cover lots of things, and make the tea all at the same time.

The R Pi, can however drive an old tv as well as a new one, and old CRT TV's are available free on collection as you could not pay people to take them away. See Freecycle type sites for example.

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