Pithagoros
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:23 am

One is on its way to me.

Not on the front of the MagPi this time..... :)

scotty101
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:39 am

Very well timed news! I'll be able to add Bluetooth support to my Pi Zero powered internet radio without having to worry about having to squeeze in a USB hub.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:44 am

Pithagoros wrote:One is on its way to me.

Not on the front of the MagPi this time..... :)
You need a 12 month subscription to get a 0W bundle.......
Retired disgracefully.....

wildfire
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:48 am

That's it, my Zero is being binned (probably given away to someone, which reminds me, competition winner check your PM's please).

A zero with WiFi, c'mon you guys are taking the mick (is it April 1st?).

Thank you to all at the Pi foundation, you're doing a brilliant job.
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hippy
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:46 am

wildfire wrote:A zero with WiFi, c'mon you guys are taking the mick (is it April 1st?)
It makes a lot of sense; add '$1 of WiFi/BT and jack the price up by $5'. Whatever the actual cost and profit, let's hope it's enough to make the Zero W manufacturable in quantity.

Looking forward to the W+ which has an antenna connector fitted.

Heater
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:57 am

This is awesome.

I just paid $9 dollars for an Omega2+. It's got WIFI but no HDMI, camera interface or Bluetooth and bugger all RAM. Less GPIO and it needs a "Dock" to supply power to it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/on ... d-by-linux

fruitoftheloom
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:21 pm

Heater wrote:This is awesome.

I just paid $9 dollars for an Omega2+. It's got WIFI but no HDMI, camera interface or Bluetooth and bugger all RAM. Less GPIO and it needs a "Dock" to supply power to it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/on ... d-by-linux
Also better value than C.H.I.P., yet again the imitators have been matched or bettered.

All we need to ignore is the stupid posts asking for features, it proves yet against RPT are aware of what is wanted and what is actually cost-effective. $5 is a good price for WiFi/BT module..

This a good price point to bridge the gap between the Zero & A+ / B+.
Retired disgracefully.....

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bensimmo
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:28 pm

hippy wrote:
wildfire wrote:A zero with WiFi, c'mon you guys are taking the mick (is it April 1st?)
It makes a lot of sense; add '$1 of WiFi/BT and jack the price up by $5'. Whatever the actual cost and profit, let's hope it's enough to make the Zero W manufacturable in quantity.

Looking forward to the W+ which has an antenna connector fitted.
Production is higher from what I read and a lot more distribution places.
£9.50 is not a lot to pay for the convenience of integrated WiFi/BT especially when you compare that to the cost of the A+ previously.

fanoush
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:32 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote: Also better value than C.H.I.P., yet again the imitators have been matched or bettered.
It depends. C.H.I.P. has li-po charger, analog audio, builtin flash memory and is ARMv7. It has no hdmi or sd card, though. If tv-out is not enough, one can add analog vga or lcd easily and SD card can be added too via gpio. so both are similar. I got two C.H.I.P.s and they are neat too, just like the Pi.

epoch1970
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:52 pm

Very cool product this zero-w. And hopefully the still reasonable but higher price point will ensure wider availability.
Not sure I'll use it personally but the offer is tempting!
Edit: modular case, great idea too.
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hippy
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:58 pm

bensimmo wrote:£9.50 is not a lot to pay for the convenience of integrated WiFi/BT
Absolutely and I am not complaining. As I have previously said I would have been happy to pay $10 for a Zero without the WiFi/BT if that facilitated bulk Zero purchases.

As it is it's even better than that. The Zero W is comparably priced to a Zero plus WiFi dongle, delivers BT with that, is more compact, and IMO a far better solution.

A particular advantage is a Zero W can be a USB peripheral while using WiFi/BT. That should be very useful if wanting to use digital picture frames as wireless connected status displays with the Zero W acting as a USB memory stick updated via WiFi.

I think the Zero W is going to be far more popular than the vanilla Zero. It has all the things which make the Zero great while better suited for WiFi web cameras, 'TV Stick' players and streamers, as well as IoT devices and BT connected peripherals.

The only things which would make it better for me are an external antenna connector ( for which there seems to be solder pads already ), and battery / power management capabilities on-board.

More speed and memory might be nice for some projects but I would expect the Pi3A to meet that need and there are plenty of other PI choices which are not expensive. It would be nice to have everything and everything for $5 but I am a realist.

Heater
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:04 pm

hippy,
...but I am a realist.
Might be time to get a new user name then.

:) Joking, only joking.

stderr
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Heater wrote:hippy,
...but I am a realist.
Might be time to get a new user name then.
:) Joking, only joking.
Oh please, the hippies were right, you can have goofy hair and be the leader of the free world.

jamesh
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:09 pm

hippy wrote:
bensimmo wrote:£9.50 is not a lot to pay for the convenience of integrated WiFi/BT
Absolutely and I am not complaining. As I have previously said I would have been happy to pay $10 for a Zero without the WiFi/BT if that facilitated bulk Zero purchases.

As it is it's even better than that. The Zero W is comparably priced to a Zero plus WiFi dongle, delivers BT with that, is more compact, and IMO a far better solution.

A particular advantage is a Zero W can be a USB peripheral while using WiFi/BT. That should be very useful if wanting to use digital picture frames as wireless connected status displays with the Zero W acting as a USB memory stick updated via WiFi.

I think the Zero W is going to be far more popular than the vanilla Zero. It has all the things which make the Zero great while better suited for WiFi web cameras, 'TV Stick' players and streamers, as well as IoT devices and BT connected peripherals.

The only things which would make it better for me are an external antenna connector ( for which there seems to be solder pads already ), and battery / power management capabilities on-board.

More speed and memory might be nice for some projects but I would expect the Pi3A to meet that need and there are plenty of other PI choices which are not expensive. It would be nice to have everything and everything for $5 but I am a realist.
It would be nice to buy a new Tesla for £20k as well, but those damn companies keep insisting they need to actually make money.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: PI Zero W - why no info on this site?

Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:42 pm

fanoush wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote: Also better value than C.H.I.P., yet again the imitators have been matched or bettered.
It depends. C.H.I.P. has li-po charger, analog audio, builtin flash memory and is ARMv7. It has no hdmi or sd card, though. If tv-out is not enough, one can add analog vga or lcd easily and SD card can be added too via gpio. so both are similar. I got two C.H.I.P.s and they are neat too, just like the Pi.
Heh... I have a CHIP and a VGA adapter. With the VGA adapter in place....you can't reach the power button. Real design problem there.

skspurling
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:46 pm

I am so excited to see this. I knew something was up when the MagPi was delayed. It was driving me crazy. They did a really good job of eliminating the leaks this time.

So, one question to the powers that be. Does this preclude a Pi A3+? or is the A3+ going to be the slimmed down version of the B with a quad core and the other stuff (No ethernet and USB hub)... I may have answered my own question. They might still confirm it though. ;-)

Hurray for the ZeroW!

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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:55 pm

skspurling wrote:I am so excited to see this. I knew something was up when the MagPi was delayed. It was driving me crazy. They did a really good job of eliminating the leaks this time.

So, one question to the powers that be. Does this preclude a Pi A3+? or is the A3+ going to be the slimmed down version of the B with a quad core and the other stuff (No ethernet and USB hub)... I may have answered my own question. They might still confirm it though. ;-)

Hurray for the ZeroW!
No such animal as a Pi A3+ has ever been suggested. People are still anticipating the launch of a Pi3A. The Pi Zero W shouldn't affect that at all, since the Pi3A should use the BCM2837 SoC (quad Cortex-A53) vs. the BCM2835 (single ARM11 core) on the Pi Zeros. What the Pi Zero W does suggest is that the Pi3A might use the resonant cavity antenna of the Pi Zero W, rather than the chip antenna from the Pi3B....maybe.

skspurling
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:07 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: No such animal as a Pi A3+ has ever been suggested.
Sorry, I misspoke. Added the + because the last version of the A we saw included the +. I was a big fan of the A+ for some projects, and I really love the zero. This latest gift from the Pi folk really make it great.

I thought there was some discussion of the processor used for the original becoming short in supply, kind of in the same way the original camera module was coming to the end of it's production run. I could have been mistaken. I would hate it if the zero couldn't happen any more because people are quick to dump "old" tech, even if it's still useful, just because it's performance numbers aren't over the top.

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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:26 pm

skspurling wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: No such animal as a Pi A3+ has ever been suggested.
Sorry, I misspoke. Added the + because the last version of the A we saw included the +. I was a big fan of the A+ for some projects, and I really love the zero. This latest gift from the Pi folk really make it great.
Think B, B+, Pi2B, Pi2B2 (officially, Pi2Bv1.3), Pi3B... Likewise, A, A+, A+512MB, Pi3A...
I thought there was some discussion of the processor used for the original becoming short in supply, kind of in the same way the original camera module was coming to the end of it's production run. I could have been mistaken. I would hate it if the zero couldn't happen any more because people are quick to dump "old" tech, even if it's still useful, just because it's performance numbers aren't over the top.
The BCM2836 used in the original version of the Pi2B has been, effectively, discontinued. So long as enough Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, CM1, and B+ boards are sold, there is little doubt that Broadcom will happily sell the SoC. Also note that there is an RPF/RPT commitment to keep the CM1 available until at least 2022.

The advantage of the A+ and the Pi Zeros is low power. There will likely be use cases where that is an issue well past the foreseeable future. Even if there is a major breakthrough in battery technology (and there is--potentially--one on the horizon), it would just mean longer run times or smaller batteries for those sorts of applications meaning that there would *still* be places that the Pi Zeros and A+s of the world would be a good choice.

There are only two things that I think could be done (assuming the SoC could be made, and made cheaply enough to go into a $5 board) that would eliminate the BCM2835. Those would be a general move to a 64-bit Raspbian (which wouldn't run on an ARMv6 core) and the development of a 28nm single core (Cortex-A53?) SoC that could take PoP RAM (the single core and the 28nm process node to hold power requirements down). If that happened, I could see all of the BCM2835 Pis being discontinued. However, I don't think that combination of events is at all likely in the foreseeable future.

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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:30 pm

Curiouser and curiouser... Adafruit, the only company that allows on-line orders in the US, isn't listing the non-W Pi Zero at all now. I will be rather disappointed if the advent of the Pi Zero W means that I can no longer get Pi Zeros on this side of The Pond, as I don't live anywhere near a Micro Center.

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mahjongg
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:33 pm

The chip used on the PI3 doesn't use PoP RAR (package on package RAM), so it can't be a replacement for the zip on the Zero (W), The RAM needs extra space on the PCB the Zero's simply do not have, especially as Zero's use single sided assembly (which is what makes their low price possible).

Zero's will still be made, (80.000 a month) and sold, even by adafruit. What you see is probably an effect of the launch of the Zero W that is all. Unless the sales of the Zero drop to err. Zero. I don't expect that, I do expect that the sales will drop to a level that would support selling more than one at a time.

Also Adafruit isn't the only seller in the US, there are three. Also CanaKit and MicroCenter should be selling the zero and zero W.

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Burngate
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:35 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:... Even if there is a major breakthrough in battery technology (and there is--potentially--one on the horizon), ...
which one is that? just as an aside

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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:46 pm

mahjongg wrote: Zero's will still be made, (80.000 a month) and sold, even by adafruit. What you see is probably an effect of the launch of the Zero W that is all. Unless the sales of the Zero drop to err. Zero. I don't expect that, I do expect that the sales will drop to a level that would support selling more than one at a time.
One may hope....
Also Adafruit isn't the only seller in the US, there are three. Also CanaKit and MicroCenter should be selling the zero and zero W.
I was under the imprssion that CanaKit was Canadian. On the other hand, it's all very well for MicroCenter to sell Pi Zeros and Pi Zero Ws, but they refuse to take and ship online orders. They are "in store purchase" *only*. That's a beef a fair number of us have with them, as they only have something like seven stores and very, very poor coverage even with those. The one nearest to me of about 400 miles away. Not exactly convenient to just drop in to buy a Pi Zero. I will grant that distances are less of an obstacle in the US, especially the Western US, but still... Even if, say, Central Computers were selling Pi Zeros on the same basis, it would hardly be worthwhile to drive 30 to 50 miles or spend $30 on a round trip just to get one...

Anyway...please don't make the mistake of considering MicroCenter an actual US reseller of Pi Zeros. For practical purposes, they aren't.

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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:51 pm

Burngate wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:... Even if there is a major breakthrough in battery technology (and there is--potentially--one on the horizon), ...
which one is that? just as an aside
Li-Sulfur. I was reading about it couple of months ago. At present, it's a lab item only, but it looks like the energy density is about 5 times that of the current Li Ion cells. Time to market estimated as at least 5 years.

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KevinA
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Re: PI Zero W info

Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:31 pm

Found one! PiHut from the UK to the US is more cost effective than the US suppliers: one out, another at $10 shipping the third is in store pickup only.
Still the same problem as the PI Zero:
Buy one at a time:
Every student goes on line and pay shipping driving the cost of ownership to double the cost if group ordered. With other vendors we can purchase quantity 100 at a time at a discount for the school and pay one shipping fee.

This one at a time policy goes directly against the foundation goals. If you can't produce enough product for demand outsource it to someone that can and quit making diamonds.

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