ituriel
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Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:23 pm

Hi everybody and happy new year,
I got a RPi3 for christmas so i'm a little new here :p
But got a question for you, by using my Pi for Kodi, Raspbian or Retropie, offently i was needing a tutorial found in the internet,
but what i saw is that main of the tutorials are from 2012, 2006 etc , main times i tryed to use it i found an error saying that
the package don't already exist or command unfound etc..
so i wonder if i am trying to do thing "too old school" like to connect a wiimote to RPI3 in retropie, or is the community going down ?
Last edited by ituriel on Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:42 pm

ituriel wrote:Hi everybody and happy new year,
I got a RPi3 for christmas so i'm a little new here :p
But got a question for you, by using my Pi for Kodi, Raspbian or Retropie, offently i was needing a tutorial found in the internet,
but what i saw is that main of the tutorials are from 2012, 2006 etc , main times i tryed to use it i found an error saying that
the package don't already exist or command unfound etc..
so i wonder if i am trying to do thing "too old school" like to connect a wiimote to RPI3 in retropie, or is the community going down ?
You are reading information which is out of date.

Using Google you can filter results to only show Past Year and use something like:

wiimote retropie sites:raspberrypi.org
Retired disgracefully.....

Heater
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:49 pm

ituriel,

Happy new year.

No, the Pi community (whatever that is) is not going down. There are more Pi out there and more people doing interesting things with Pi than ever.

I know we have a language problem here because I can not make much sense of what you say.

But if you have a specific question about a specific problem you have more chance of getting an answer.

Rather than some vague complaining that this or that does not work.

Of course things change all the time. Any document from 2006, before the Pi existed, should be taken as advisory.

ituriel
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:12 pm

yes i know but it was an example,
for example for using my cell in android as a keyboard in raspbian, it cost me one day jungling with tutorials to found an apk that works and install it in autostart on RPi,
.. using my Pi as VNC client? better answers "what a crazy idea usually it is used as server never in client"
it is really crazy that is so hard to find updated tutrials to set up basics things..

ituriel
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:41 pm

thkx for your answer heater,
i don't have a special question, but what was surprising me is that insteand of finding answers on raspberri.org for basical use
i was redirected on sites that was oldated, and by using it was waisting lot of time
i was hoping that on this forums would be some tutorials uptodate to quickstart with usual isues, istead to post only when troubles,
this is why i wonder if the Pi community is going down, because instead to find tutorials from 2010 that don't works anymore i should find on this site how to do basics things with latests update

Heater
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:49 pm

ituriel,
...for example for using my cell in android as a keyboard in raspbian ... using my Pi as VNC client?
To be fair, both of those are rare things for people to want to do. In your 7 posts to this forum you have not asked such questions.

So how can you then conclude the community is going down?

What actual problems do you have we can try to help with?

jamesh
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:13 pm

Community is fine.

Cannot say the same for the rest of the internet - the Foundation only runs this website, and doesn't have any power or say in any other website, so cannot do anything about out of date tutorials. So a bit unfair to assign blame there, should you wish to do so.

If there are no tutorials for what you want to do, that suggests what you want to do is really quite rare. Remember that the Pi is a Linux box - lots of Linux tutorials will work - they don't have to be Pi related.
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MattHawkinsUK
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Re: Finding tutorials was: is RPi3 community going down?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:34 am

The community is stronger than ever so don't worry about that. The Foundation will update their tutorials if you let them know when their is a problem.

Because the Pi has been around for almost 5 years there is a massive collection of articles, tutorials, guides and information. Unfortunately changes in Raspbian, Linux, Python etc can mean some of those tutorials stop working or are no longer relevant. I've got 230+ posts on my blog and it is a challenge to try and keep up. I update when I can but I know lots of writers don't ever go back to old posts to correct them.

You can try contacting the author of the tutorial and ask if they can update but they may or may not be able to.

My advice is to post here with your issue (and a link to the tutorial) and people will try and help you out.
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Martin Frezman
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:29 pm

Face it. There are two kinds of software/hardware environments:

1) The ones that are well documented.
2) The ones that are fun/interesting. This means "changing all the time".

Basically, once something enters category 1, it ceases to be in category 2.

Luckily for all of us, the Pi is still in category 2.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

alphanumeric
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:40 pm

Have a look around here, https://learn.adafruit.com/category/raspberry-pi and https://learn.pimoroni.com/
Lots of sites that sell Pi related items also have a tutorials for using them. The recent OS updates, Wheezy to Jessie, then Jessie to Jessie with Pixel, plus recent new models of Pi's has some tutorials out of date. It can be frustrating at times.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: is RPi3 community going down?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:48 pm

ituriel wrote:thkx for your answer heater,
i don't have a special question, but what was surprising me is that insteand of finding answers on raspberri.org for basical use
i was redirected on sites that was oldated, and by using it was waisting lot of time
i was hoping that on this forums would be some tutorials uptodate to quickstart with usual isues, istead to post only when troubles,
this is why i wonder if the Pi community is going down, because instead to find tutorials from 2010 that don't works anymore i should find on this site how to do basics things with latests update
Have you ever visited: https://www.raspberrypi.org/help ???


I explained how to find relevant information by using Google in my first response.........


Why would you read tutorials which pre-date the release of the RPi anyway ????
Retired disgracefully.....

blaablaaguy
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:58 pm

ituriel wrote:Hi everybody and happy new year,
I got a RPi3 for christmas so i'm a little new here :p
But got a question for you, by using my Pi for Kodi, Raspbian or Retropie, offently i was needing a tutorial found in the internet,
but what i saw is that main of the tutorials are from 2012, 2006 etc , main times i tryed to use it i found an error saying that
the package don't already exist or command unfound etc..
so i wonder if i am trying to do thing "too old school" like to connect a wiimote to RPI3 in retropie, or is the community going down ?
Just because people haven't been making tutorials on a specific thing your trying to do doesn't mean that the community is going down, it just means that not many people have tried that thing yet. Theres billions of things that can be done with a pi, you cant expect every one of them to allready have been done and documented.
This signature intentionally left blank.

Heater
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:22 pm

ituriel,

Seems this thread got split off into the Android "black hole" ("Android" is a trigger word for instant thread nuking around here) so I'll copy your reply to my post from there:
but in fact we are going apart my topic that was dealing with the problem of fiding updated toturials
for example for use my pi to send email that is a basic thing, type it in google searsh you will find tutorials but from 2015, 2014, 2012 etc, and in main case useless

this is why i wonder if the pi community is still here, and if it would be usefull to have a specific menu with tutorials to quickstart, instead of looking every where in the web.
I think you may be missing the point that a Raspi runs Linux. There are billions of tools and programs for Linux. There are tens of thousands of things even regular people may want to do. It would be impossible for the Pi Foundation to document all that and then keep that mass of documentation up to date. Besides it's largely unnecessary work because Raspbian is Debian and Debian has tons of documentation already. Then every program and tool has it's own web site and it's own documentation. Then there is all the tutorials and blogs out there.

Let's look at your mail sending problem. There are many ways to do that. Using mail clients, from your favorite programming language, etc. I'm sure you can find out how to do it soon enough with a quick google.

If not the community is here in force. You only have to ask a specific question and I'm sure someone will pop up with an answer.

Pithagoros
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:34 pm

Hi ituriel

There is a lot of Raspberry Pi tutorial information lying around the www that applies to Wheezy based Raspbian. It can lead to a frustrating waste of time when the later Jessie based image doesn't seem to correspond to what is in those tutorials. It's something to be aware of when browsing. I don't think getting people to tidy up is going to work, so take a note of the age of the information you are looking at.

The community is strong, but you are correct in your feeling that the information out there on the web is a bit of a pigs ear.

Heater
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:42 pm

Very true.

It can be annoying trying to find out how relevant any given tutorial/blog/etc is. Perhaps it's way out of date. Perhaps it works for some other Linux OS. etc.

It is really annoying that so many times the creation date does not exist on such pages. And the author does not bother to specify exactly what versions of OS and all else he is talking about.

alphanumeric
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:48 pm

Which model raspberry Pi your using can factor into it too. All Pi's are not created equal. ;)

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PeterO
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:59 pm

Pithagoros wrote:Hi ituriel

There is a lot of Raspberry Pi tutorial information lying around the www that applies to Wheezy based Raspbian. It can lead to a frustrating waste of time when the later Jessie based image doesn't seem to correspond to what is in those tutorials..
It's a common problem when people continue to call things by the same name when they are in fact different...
At least car manufacturers use the year of manufacture to differentiate between versions of the same model (e.g. I have an '09 Ford Mondeo).

I think we should be on Raspbian III or Raspbain IV by now :roll: Changing the name would avoid many of these "tutorials for old versions" problems. It would seem that using the Wheezy vs Jessie differentiation is not proving clear enough for new comers.

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bensimmo
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:18 pm

ituriel wrote:Hi everybody and happy new year,
I got a RPi3 for christmas so i'm a little new here :p
But got a question for you, by using my Pi for Kodi, Raspbian or Retropie, offently i was needing a tutorial found in the internet,
but what i saw is that main of the tutorials are from 2012, 2006 etc , main times i tryed to use it i found an error saying that
the package don't already exist or command unfound etc..
so i wonder if i am trying to do thing "too old school" like to connect a wiimote to RPI3 in retropie, or is the community going down ?
Yes it can be a pain, but for standard Raspian on a Pi this website is pretty good.
You are using
RetroPie - goto their website, they run it and ask them, they control their wiki.
Advice is to use their image and it runs nicely. WiiMote are a tricky beast to get working. I know I've tried and given up. Not always the developers faults. We cannot get some working with Windows, certain revisions don't work. As for Android once Gingerbread was left behind you can forget using them.
So it's not just the Pi.

Kodi/LibreElec.
They run and develop that, ask them there.
Either stick it on another SD card or load it up on a RetroPie image (they show it as supported on their site)

Raspian, here is the place but practice on a pure Raspian setup on another SD card, then try it on the RetroPie image as they may have a few other settings different.

But open threads in the appropriate forum and ask specific questions for help. Quite often it's better than a lot of guides if you start finding they don't work.

Heater
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:25 pm

Raspbian is basically Debian.

Debian the current Debian version is Jessie. AKA Debian 8

So I guess we now have Raspbian VIII

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bensimmo
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:35 pm

Heater wrote:Raspbian is basically Debian.

Debian the current Debian version is Jessie. AKA Debian 8

So I guess we now have Raspbian VIII
But what about the difference through the past year as the kernel versions and also the move to pixel, have moved on.

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PeterO
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:43 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Heater wrote:Raspbian is basically Debian.

Debian the current Debian version is Jessie. AKA Debian 8

So I guess we now have Raspbian VIII
But what about the difference through the past year as the kernel versions and also the move to pixel, have moved on.
Which is why using the Debian version is not a good idea ! TBH kernel versions don't matter too much as they don't have a great effect on user space stuff. Things like introducing Pixel should have been a major Raspbian version bump.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
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bensimmo
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:47 pm

It does have a version number though
Version : Raspbian Jessie with Pixel/Lite November 2016 Edition, is currently the latest.
With a release number : 2016-11-25

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MattHawkinsUK
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:08 pm

There have probably been 15+ Raspbian releases and 10+ Pi hardware variants. Tutorials will be valid for a number of those ... but when you write a tutorial it's impossible to test on more than a few of them. It's also impossible to re-test every time a new Raspbian is released or a new Pi device is released. So after 4 years the vast majority of tutorials are going to be out of date most of the time.

There is an ever increasing volume to re-test so things aren't going to improve. I can't see this being any different for any device.

You basically have to read tutorials and solve some of the issues you may face including searching for error messages etc. In most cases the updates required are quite simple.
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ejolson
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 pm

MattHawkinsUK wrote:t's also impossible to re-test every time a new Raspbian is released or a new Pi device is released. So after 4 years the vast majority of tutorials are going to be out of date most of the time.
In my opinion this thread has touched on a very important topic that may explain why the computer programming courses of the 1980's were later replaced by courses which taught secretarial skills such as word processing. About the time programming examples started appearing in school textbooks, the computers on which those BASIC programs could run were no longer manufactured. The publishers deleted all programming examples from the next edition and that's where we are now.

In some countries the mathematics curriculum has undergone radical revision every 10 years since 1950. This constant stirring of the pot in hope that the soup would improve has left other countries with tastier soup and better mathematics education. Computing technology seems to change even faster; however, schools in some countries, possibly for financial reasons, continued to teach BASIC until quite recently. From a certain point of view, those schools generated more computer literacy than the schools which switched to word processing.

The point of the curriculum reform supported by the Raspberry Pi is to put computer science back into the classroom. Since the introduction of the original Pi, available RAM and number of cores have increased by a factor of four. While it may be unreasonable to expect all software developed for the newer models to run on the older models, it is important for educators writing textbooks and schools adopting them that instructional materials designed for the original Pi remain relevant.

Since there have not been any elementary mathematics or science textbooks that include Raspberry Pi based programming examples anyway, the rapid change may not be much of a problem. On the other hand, such books won't ever appear, given the way things are going. For computer science to become a central part of the curriculum, the essential part of the subject which doesn't change every year needs to be identified and a stable computing environment designed to support instruction. The Pi currently looks like ideal hardware for such a learning environment, but Raspbian has made incompatible changes each year.

As Raspbian tracks upstream Debian many of the changes are not surprising. Recent changes in Debian, for example, spurred a number of system administrators to create Devuan that was aimed at not changing that which is not broken. On the other hand Debian long-term support for Wheezy will continue until May 2018, while Raspian Wheezy is already deprecated. Thus, Raspbian actually changes faster than Debian, which is strange given that Raspbian is designed for education and Debian for modern servers.

While the recent PIXEL changes with splash screen and automatic login are the most visible so far, probably the change from Python2 to Python3 was more disruptive. The Pi currently enjoys community support through a huge number of tutorials. Change diminishes the value of that support. I would be happier if a little more effort were spent making Raspbian better by keeping it the same rather than better by changing it.

Heater
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Re: Finding tutorials was hard: is RPi3 community going down

Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:39 am

It turns out that the arithmetic as we all know and love took hundreds of years to come to Europe. There was the Roman number system and all that Arabic Numeral thing was greatly resisted. It took a long time for us to accept that zero was a valid number. Never mind negatives, irrationals, and so on.

Since 1980 or so the general population has had the chance to get into programming machines. That is to say "algorithms".

Where am I going with this ramble? Well for sure any text book using whatever programming language in it's examples is dead as soon as the vendor of that language.

The point is not the particular language but the concepts it embodies.

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