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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:25 pm

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/389

Let the speculation about a release date commence!
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kme
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:41 pm

Just of plain curiosity, but how get one populated just 100 units? It takes a lot of high-tech to mount BGAs and SMDs and I guess most manufacturer will laugh loud if requested to stop his production to make 100 units?

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:42 pm

[quote]Quote from liz on December 1, 2011, 18:25
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/389

Let the speculation about a release date commence![/quote]

It\'s already commenced but I suggest you don\'t look at it unless you have a large supply of valium available.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?mingle ... c&t=1343.0

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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:45 pm

[quote]Quote from kme on December 1, 2011, 18:41
Just of plain curiosity, but how get one populated just 100 units? It takes a lot of high-tech to mount BGAs and SMDs and I guess most manufacturer will laugh loud if requested to stop his production to make 100 units?[/quote]

Basically, you have to spend a lot of money.
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kme
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:47 pm

[quote]Quote from liz on December 1, 2011, 18:45
Basically, you have to spend a lot of money. [/quote]Ah, yes that old trick never fails :D

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:19 pm

[quote]Quote from liz on December 1, 2011, 18:45
[quote]Quote from kme on December 1, 2011, 18:41
Just of plain curiosity, but how get one populated just 100 units? It takes a lot of high-tech to mount BGAs and SMDs and I guess most manufacturer will laugh loud if requested to stop his production to make 100 units?[/quote]

Basically, you have to spend a lot of money. [/quote]

For very small runs -- e.g., less than a dozen -- the first prototypes are often hand-assembled as it\'s cheaper than setting up and running the pick-and-place robots. By hand-assembled I don\'t mean hand-soldering the SMT parts, but I do mean that the components are hand tweezer-placed on the solder paste. Then the placed board is run through the EZ-bake oven and \"Bob\'s your uncle\".

I would suspect that 100 units is worth automating. In either case you spend a lot of money, as Liz said. We\'ll start the bidding at...

Edit: Oh, and that\'s a beautiful board. I recommend saving any scrap boards and selling them at auction as well.

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mkopack
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:16 pm

Actually, to build on john\'s idea - sell any bad boards / scrap boards really cheap as a way for kids to play with circuitry - learn how a circuit board works - the multiple layers, the traces connecting things, etc. $1-2 for a scrap bad board could provide a kid with a voltmeter a lot of learning for a couple hours...

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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:18 pm

We do plan on selling any toasted boards - we\'ve had quite a few people say they\'d like to buy them as coasters, very small pieces of (cough) art, bookmarks and what have you. And it\'d be a nice way to raise a bit of extra revenue so we can keep pumping the Raspberry Pi itself out!
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:58 pm

Very pretty. I really hope they all test out OK.

Wish I could get one. No way can I afford to go up against the\"collectors\" of this world, though; guess I\'ll have to wait for the actual release. Bah.

Simon

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:16 pm

[quote]Quote from liz on December 1, 2011, 20:18
We do plan on selling any toasted boards - we\'ve had quite a few people say they\'d like to buy them as coasters, very small pieces of (cough) art, bookmarks and what have you. And it\'d be a nice way to raise a bit of extra revenue so we can keep pumping the Raspberry Pi itself out![/quote]

OK i\'ll need about 3000 of the trashed boards [img]http://cdn.ubergizmo.com/photos/2010/7/ ... table1.jpg[/img]

:D

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:53 pm

This may have been stated elsewhere but I can\'t see it. Roughly what portion of the $25 is taken up by the PCB itself?

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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:56 pm

Off the top of my head, it\'s a little under 10%.
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Please excuse my ignorance, but I wonder about the frame around the actual PCB. I can easily understand that the machinery needs something to hold on, but I don\'t understand the many square spots. First I thought they where test points, but then I realized there are no traces to the actual PCB, so that can\'t be.

This is certainly an educational project in many ways!

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:31 pm

Thanks. :) Does the price decrease much when you order a lot more or is that a good price regardless of how many you order and they can\'t go much lower because of the complexity etc?

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:33 pm

PCBs come in panels, and what you generally do when you make them is to panellise multiple PCBs together. In this particular case, it\'s a single PCB panel, so what you\'re seeing is the panel framework. The square bits of copper are there for the machines to lock onto when doing pick and place, afaik.
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:34 pm

@Nexy - yes, the price decreases when we do a large batch. These were *much* more expensive to produce than they\'ll be when we\'re properly set up for large-scale production.
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Montekuri
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:10 am

Now we can make a more realistic 3d drawing:
[img]http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i6/mo ... _board.png[/img]

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:16 am

I had this mental image of ~100 boards, followed a few days later ~10k boards, being produced on an industrial estate in Merseyside, and moving next door to be populated, then next door to that to a warehouse where the packaging and shipping is happening.
This turns out to be wrong.
Now my mental image is of the boards being produced on Merseyside and couriered to Cambridge and onto the pick\'n\'place robot, then back to Cambridge and onto the warehouse. Otherwise Liz has a LOT of stamps to lick.
That is probably also wrong.
A quick calculation says that 10k unpopulated boards takes up (~4in x ~3in x ~0.2in x 10k) 13 cardboard boxes = one small van. But populated, they\'ll be a bit thicker, so they\'ll need a large truck to transport them.
One of the side-benefits of Rasperry-Pi - not just the Pi itself, or the Foundation, or this forum, but the whole ecosystem - is the way I\'m learning about how it\'s being brought to us. A whole new view on the world!
So thank you for keeping us informed.

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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:58 am

God - you think *you\'re* learning stuff! You could sell what I\'ve been doing over the last few months as a high-speed MBA programme...
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:10 pm

Like (+1) :)

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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:17 pm

As far as I know, the boards are being produced by Norcott in Warrington - both boards and Pick N Place? Or are Norcott only producing the bare PCB\'s themselves?
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liz
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:22 pm

We\'re actually looking at some other foundries at the moment too so we can fulfil the sort of demand we\'re expecting. (But yes, this first lot are being done from start to finish there.)
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:31 pm

Liz, if Norcott is the place I\'m thinking of (I live in the area) it certainly looks as if the staff have some nice views out of the windows, but I can see why you may have to look at other manufacturers as well as it isn\'t a massive place.
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:34 pm

It\'s not so much the size of Norcott - they\'ve plenty of facilities to get this sort of stuff done - it\'s the fact that they\'re super-popular at the moment, so most of their lines are full!
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Re: Unpopulated PCBs on the front page

Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:25 pm

[quote]Quote from ukscone on December 1, 2011, 21:16
[quote]Quote from liz on December 1, 2011, 20:18
We do plan on selling any toasted boards - we\'ve had quite a few people say they\'d like to buy them as coasters, very small pieces of (cough) art, bookmarks and what have you. And it\'d be a nice way to raise a bit of extra revenue so we can keep pumping the Raspberry Pi itself out![/quote]

OK i\'ll need about 3000 of the trashed boards [img]http://cdn.ubergizmo.com/photos/2010/7/ ... table1.jpg[/img]

:D[/quote]
You\'re thinking too small ;-) http://www.theokamecke.com/functional.html

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