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Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:04 am
by tarragon
Hi Liz,
We know the price of the model A and model B boards including VAT, but what else will be for sale when they launch and do you have any idea about price?

I am thinking about pre-installed SD cards, PSUs, cables, printed manuals etc.

I know that you plan to do cases in a later batch for the educational market, but I am interested in being able to buy everything to ensure it will work and then let my children play around with their own SD card distributions, knowing if we make a mess, a purchased one will work.

On the Education forum you mentioned supporting materials to assist in teaching children to program. Is there any more detail?

And yes, just in case we are not fortunate enough to be in the first 10000, a FIGnition arrived this morning so they have something to do over the Christmas holidays.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:13 pm
by abishur
I think that\'s supposed to be a surprise in the end ;)

We do know that there will be an offer of SD cards (with the appropriate image put on them) and I believe I\'ve heard talk about a t-shirt as well as a PSU. Beyond that is pure speculation and we\'ll just have to wait for the release of the boards ;) (We\'ve been told that they won\'t sell anything but the stickers until the boards are available for sale to avoid the baseless accusations of them being a scam or vaporware)

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:16 pm
by tufty
There\'s probably room in the market for a branded range of megayachts and ultra-luxury sportscars.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:32 pm
by semisight
[quote]Quote from tufty on December 1, 2011, 19:16
There\'s probably room in the market for a branded range of megayachts and ultra-luxury sportscars.[/quote]

A Raceberry Pi?

Definitely in for a t-shirt just for the logo design alone.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:51 pm
by willrandship
YES. I want my buckyball speedboat!

On a side note, it might be a good idea to make a program for windows that can properly format an SD card for the Pi. Linux users can probably handle it manually, though.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:18 am
by mkopack
Don\'t forget us Mac users either with such a tool....

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:44 am
by shiftyphil
[quote]Quote from mkopack on December 2, 2011, 02:18
Don\'t forget us Mac users either with such a tool....[/quote]

Mac users should be able to do it the Linux way.

Well, maybe with some pictures to guide them. :P

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:49 am
by Jasont41
The sd cards will have the logo???

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:00 am
by SRSullivan
[quote]Quote from willrandship on December 1, 2011, 23:51
On a side note, it might be a good idea to make a program for windows that can properly format an SD card for the Pi. Linux users can probably handle it manually, though.[/quote]

Efforts have already begun[1] to modify LiveUSB Creator[2] for just this purpose.

[1]:http://www.raspberrypi.org/forum?mingle ... pic&t=1190
[2]:https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 am
by Asmodeus
[quote]Quote from willrandship on December 1, 2011, 23:51

On a side note, it might be a good idea to make a program for windows that can properly format an SD card for the Pi. Linux users can probably handle it manually, though.[/quote]

Windows users could use Linux...

WUBI (Ubuntu based distributions), Live-CD, Live-USB, VirtualBox, etc.

You will probably use Linux with your Raspberry Pi. Why not using Linux now?

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:19 pm
by dpawson
[quote]Quote from abishur on December 1, 2011, 19:13

We do know that there will be an offer of SD cards (with the appropriate image put on them) [/quote]

Odd one for the mix? Would it be possible to have two images
on the SD? riscos and fedora would be my combo, pretty please?
Or would that be two purchases.... / downloads?

Dave

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:59 pm
by abishur
They haven\'t really said anything beyond, \"there will be a pre-imaged SD card for purchase\" (and until the store is fully up all such comments should be taken with a grain of salt ;) ) My off the cuff guess would be that it will only have the one distro on it. That said, there is nothing keeping us from making user generated torrents with custom images like this and installing it on the cards ourselves.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:00 pm
by Wooloomooloo
My understanding is that the whole thing is booted by a very limited, factory-programmed bootloader in the GPU(!) therefore I assume it is looking for a very specific format to boot. I do not know whether other stuff may or may not reside on that card and exactly how much of it would need to be switched out / renamed to be booted instead of the default image. And unless the second (third?) stage bootloader is a multi-boot aware one, I wouldn\'t expect to be able to select an image at boot time...

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:24 pm
by abishur
[quote]Quote from Wooloomooloo on December 2, 2011, 17:00
My understanding is that the whole thing is booted by a very limited, factory-programmed bootloader in the GPU(!)[/quote]

See that\'s why I wish the foundation had been a little less opened and had never mentioned that stupid GPU thing.

The answer is that your statement while being technically correct is stated such that you believe a wrong thing ;)

The GPU does kick off the boot process, but all it does is tell it to boot a .img file of a fat32 partition on the SD card (the first partition to be precise) but this is no different in concept then how the boot process of a x86 or x64 based computer works. The bios loads the bootstrap which loads the mbr which loads the bootloader of your choice.

Long story short, you\'ll still be able to use your bootloader. GPU = not an issue ;)

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:22 am
by willrandship
I will use linux, but keep in mind this is supposed to be for kids who don\'t have reg. access to a computer. They can\'t install linux on the parents computer just for formatting a card.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:42 am
by tufty
[quote]Quote from Asmodeus on December 2, 2011, 10:51
You will probably use Linux with your Raspberry Pi. Why not using Linux now? [/quote]
I say this as someone who doesn\'t use Windows, and who has happily lived without using MS products (both personally and commercially) since 1987 or so (with a brief interlude of 6 months or so in the early \'90s where I was required to use a piece of software that only ran under Win3.1).

There\'s a vast number of reasons why not, and many of the come down to \"inertia\". People have a significant amount of time (and potentially expense) invested in \"learning\" the Windows platform, changing that platform is a hard thing to do, and would involve relearning a new platform. That\'s not nearly as simple as it sounds, especially if you consider that we\'re talking largely about people who refer to ie as \"the internet\"; you\'re expecting people who get confused if someone moves an icon to start using a platform where you have a choice of *hundreds* of inconsistent GUI front ends, and where the \"standard\" GUI has an unpleasant habit of changing every bloody minor point release.

All this to carry out one task - copying a binary image of an SD card onto physical media.

Yes, it might be better if less people willingly tied themselves into the gordian knot of MS dependency. However, saying...
[quote]Make an SD card for Raspberry Pi? Get thee to a linux[/quote]
...is liable to elicit a highly merited two word response, the last of which is \"off\" and the first rhymes with \"duck\".

Not to mention that asking the aforementioned \"I can\'t open the internet\" 90% of users to use dd (aka Disk Destroyer) is a bit like equipping the inmates of a mental hospital with AK47s.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:46 am
by tufty
[quote]Quote from dpawson on December 2, 2011, 12:19
[Odd one for the mix? Would it be possible to have two images
on the SD? riscos and fedora would be my combo, pretty please?
[/quote]
Hey Dave.

Not without using a second-stage bootloader, no. There\'s no reason why you couldn\'t do so if (for example) uBoot was ported across (your SD card layout would be more complex, of course, with 3 partitions). For the moment, however, no, you can\'t do that. 2 cards required.

Simon

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:17 pm
by Chris Tyler
[quote]Not without using a second-stage bootloader, no.[/quote]

Though the poor man\'s boot menu is to rename two kernel files :-)

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:07 am
by willrandship
Not to mention that with this community I expect a bootloader port to be quite imminent.

Double-Distro cards will be extremely easy at that point, but I don\'t really see a need for running two \'desktop\' distros at the same time. I can see uses in running, say, a tool-oriented distro like backtrack simultaneously, but for the most part Fedora and Debian can be quite redundant, to the point where it comes to personal preference.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:49 am
by dpawson
[quote]Quote from tufty on December 8, 2011, 07:46
[quote]Quote from dpawson on December 2, 2011, 12:19
[Odd one for the mix? Would it be possible to have two images
on the SD? riscos and fedora would be my combo, pretty please?
[/quote]
Hey Dave.

Not without using a second-stage bootloader, no. There\'s no reason why you couldn\'t do so if (for example) uBoot was ported across (your SD card layout would be more complex, of course, with 3 partitions). For the moment, however, no, you can\'t do that. 2 cards required.

Simon[/quote]

Can I challenge that @tufty?
I can put (I think) two iso images on one CD... Why not two SD images?
I\'m thinking it cheaper to deliver, say, riskos and some Linux(en) assuming of course that they fit onto a cheap enough card? If they can fit, and the tools are available to take those images and blow them (part disk to full disk) then that IMHO is a better/cheaper solution than buying n cards to play?
Yes, lots of ifs and buts there....
I\'m thinking of downloading two or three 4Gig sets without error would be a bit on the hairy side, and go well towards my 40Gb monthly limit.
Dave

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:43 pm
by willrandship
As stated previously, it is definitely possible, BUT the software to do so has not yet been set up. Second stage bootloaders are fairly trivial to set up, since all the heavy lifting of setting up the system has been handled, but it\'s pretty hard to program for something you do not yet have, especially at such low system levels.

And no, you can\'t put two ISOs on one CD and expect them to still behave as a normal ISO would, especially not boot CDs. You can extract and put both ISOs\' sets of files onto the CD, but it won\'t be exactly the same (which is what disk images are for)

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:06 am
by gladoscc
[quote]Quote from Asmodeus on December 2, 2011, 10:51
[quote]Quote from willrandship on December 1, 2011, 23:51

On a side note, it might be a good idea to make a program for windows that can properly format an SD card for the Pi. Linux users can probably handle it manually, though.[/quote]

Windows users could use Linux...

WUBI (Ubuntu based distributions), Live-CD, Live-USB, VirtualBox, etc.

You will probably use Linux with your Raspberry Pi. Why not using Linux now? [/quote]
That\'s nice and all, but not all geeks are going to be using it. User friendlyness is important.

Re: What else for sale?

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:59 am
by willrandship
And I still say that is very incompatible with the true target audience, which is people without the means of using their own PC. running Linux on another PC as setup is a ridiculous expectation for someone who may only have occasional access.

I guess there\'s always the pre-imaged ones.