User avatar
kusti8
Posts: 3439
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: USA

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:25 pm

johnb_summers wrote:i have only had the problem since the 27/05/2016 version of jessie, so all these people saying that have had them on for years cant have that version can they? and i dont think any of your 1's had that version, my cards too lasted UNTIL THE 27/05/2016 version
It is almost certainly not the new release, sure as it may seem. Try a SanDisk 8 GB from your local store or the Samsung EVO. I've seen problems with Kingston.
There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't.

vanekjar;
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:21 pm
Contact: Website

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:34 pm

Most crucial thing is to avoid frequest writes to SD card. Obvious solution is to use tmpfs as much as possible.

I just found a solution how to make RAM disk persistent on Raspbian, so it can be used even for data that you don't wanna lose. If you're interested have look at my blog post http://raspberryserver.blogspot.cz/2016 ... etime.html

To find which processes cause frequent writes you can use command iotop (let it run for longer time)

Code: Select all

iotop -oPa
Anyway if the card is fake/broken even before you put it in your PI, there is no help. You can check the card with badblocks (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/badblocks) in advance.
Last edited by vanekjar; on Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 36330
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:12 pm

I have three RPi2Bs running 2016-05-27 (although I've updated it since with apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade && rpi-update).

I have no problems with those three systems.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

User avatar
solar3000
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:14 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:20 pm

While I have not had any problems with the latest raspbian, I don't believe that the pis were dropped down to earth by the gods. Krappy sd cards and power supplies are likely problems. But I'm curious if there may be some design flaws with the pi3. since people only started complaining about fiery sd cards since the pi 3.
Antikythera

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:41 am

solar3000,
...people only started complaining about fiery sd cards since the pi 3.
Correlation does not prove causation.

Certainly the SD card that smoked for me was not in a Pi 3. It was actually an early Pi from years ago.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
solar3000
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 12:14 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:20 pm

I'm guessing we've ruled out bent sd cards?

even samsung had sd card problems with their flagship phones and sandisk cards.
Antikythera

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:26 am

Hi
Judging by all the reply's and the distribution of events i would say there is something particular in the way I am doing it, as not enough of you have exactly the same problem as me, but that could be that there are not enough of you running it 24/7 with a 8gb card, i am installing 16 gb cards in all 7 pi's i have running 24/7 here and have been for the last 6 weeks as they blow, checking my blown cards they are as follows.
9 - 8gb kingston cards
2 - 16gb samsung cards
2 - 128gb patriot cards

I have an email from kingston that states kingston do not support the raspberry pi
i got no reply from samsung or patriot.
all cards were bought from the manufacturers through amazon

i have decided to change my business plan for mypiworld.com and not sell pre installed cards but sell downloads and licences to use the mypiworld server as a mypi DNS server, we will sell I2C kits as well, so now the card problem has evaporated for me as it will be down to the customer to provide their own card to copy an mypi image on to.

i would like to thank you all for your input it has been invaluable, if any of you would like to be involved in the MyPi project please message me

I would like to give extra thanks to the director of software for his help and doug for his frankness.

kind regards
John B Summers
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:49 am

johnb_summers,
... i have saved 13 dead cards from 8gb to 128gb...
Perhaps this has been mentioned here already but, grief, what on earth are you doing?

I don't mean that badly but I do wonder what your software is doing ?

Or, there is clearly something weird about your hardware setup/environment. SD's are unreliable but that is extreme.

Of course if you want SD cards to be robust, and the file systems on them, they should be written to as little as possible. Preferably mounted as read only.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:08 am

there is a demo running the software on http://www.mypiworld.com/demo
so you can see for yourself, look at gpio programming, it does use the mysql server a lot.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:06 pm

johnb_summers wrote: i have decided to change my business plan for mypiworld.com and not sell pre installed cards but sell downloads and licences to use the mypiworld server as a mypi DNS server, we will sell I2C kits as well, so now the card problem has evaporated for me as it will be down to the customer to provide their own card to copy an mypi image on to.
From a potential customers perspective: I would try to determine if the problem is truly isolated to your specific hardware configuration or if it is systemic to the software that you are producing to sell. If it's software related then punting the problem down to your customer is going to mean a short life for your business. If I purchase your product and find that my uSD cards need to be re-imaged constantly to use them, I'm going to look to you to provide an answer as to why your product doesn't work. The problem may have evaporated to you, but to me it's still a problem. And if your customers happen to find this thread (and now that you have provided a link this post and thread have been indexed.) and the see that you had the problem and decided to push is down to the user to handle, I'd be right peeved and would be filing for a refund for a known defective product.

Short: Don't push the problem on to your customer, it ends bad for everyone.
Account Inactive

ejolson
Posts: 3724
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:02 pm

johnb_summers wrote:there is a demo running the software on http://www.mypiworld.com/demo
so you can see for yourself, look at gpio programming, it does use the mysql server a lot.
Unless the cards purchased on Amazon were counterfeit, you may have inadvertently developed a rigorous stress test for sdcard reliability. It may be worth while to buy a few cards from other retail sources to check whether the exact factory markings and packaging match those from Amazon and whether they fail with similar regularity. It would be very interesting if there were types of sdcards that worked more reliably for this application than others. As noted, for the customer's benefit, you might consider changes to the software to mitigate hardware reliability issues.

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:05 pm

I agree with SonOfAMotherlessGoat. You have not found the root cause of the problem. Shunting it to any customer is not going to help your cause.

Looking at this: http://81.142.92.203/index.php?settings=2&sponsors=1 I see the plan is doomed anyway. What is that? So complicated.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:23 pm

Heater wrote:I agree with SonOfAMotherlessGoat. You have not found the root cause of the problem. Shunting it to any customer is not going to help your cause.

Looking at this: http://81.142.92.203/index.php?settings=2&sponsors=1 I see the plan is doomed anyway. What is that? So complicated.
That pi has been on months with a 32gb samsung card and been fine, it has run that program and all the i2c chips for months with no problem.

also i have one at my sons house(office) with a 32gb samsung card and an old version of jessie that too has been fine for months, that program that you see as doomed is an easy way to use i2c chips and interface them with the pins for future experiments that i plan to build, i have never had a 32gb samsung card blow, i gave a list of the blown cards above, so that makes you and sonofagoat wrong.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:39 pm

ejolson wrote:
johnb_summers wrote:there is a demo running the software on http://www.mypiworld.com/demo
so you can see for yourself, look at gpio programming, it does use the mysql server a lot.
Unless the cards purchased on Amazon were counterfeit, you may have inadvertently developed a rigorous stress test for sdcard reliability. It may be worth while to buy a few cards from other retail sources to check whether the exact factory markings and packaging match those from Amazon and whether they fail with similar regularity. It would be very interesting if there were types of sdcards that worked more reliably for this application than others. As noted, for the customer's benefit, you might consider changes to the software to mitigate hardware reliability issues.
well so far 32gb samsung evo cards, been running 8 months with no problems and not one has blown. also a 64gb samsung but that has not been run for months running gpiomon.py, i have made gpiomon.py editable.

Gpiomon.py looks after the gpio pins and i2c bus storing all data in the mysql database, it reads and writes to the pins and i2c chips see http://mypiworld.com not fin constructing the site but it has enough info on gpiomon.py
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:43 pm

We may well be wrong. Would not be the first time. However we still don't know the root cause of your problem, the dozen or more dead SD cards.

As for the complex GUI, we will see...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:50 pm

Heater wrote:We may well be wrong. Would not be the first time. However we still don't know the root cause of your problem, the dozen or more dead SD cards.

As for the complex GUI, we will see...
My Pi's run 24/7, all 7 and 1 at my sons house run 24/7, i only turn them of to put a new card in, then straight on again.

It is a web interface not written the GUI yet, but you can edit and program with the web interface without having to go near the pi or any programming language within it, dont think you have looked at it enough.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:58 pm

Yes, yes, some of your systems work. But you came here with a question about "13 dead cards".

So, as an outsider I see the failure rate is far in excess of the success rate.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Heater
Posts: 13694
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:03 pm

johnb_summers ,
...dont think you have looked at it enough
Interesting. Where should I look?

I hit the link you gave above and from there to GPIO. Then gave up because I saw the screen I mentioned above.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:08 pm

I hope your project has much success, I'm just trying to give you a little assistance. The small side project that I work on runs on the Raspberry Pi (all models ever made inclusive.) While we may only have +10k site installs of the project, I think that sample size gives me a little insight into the multiple failure modes of the Pi as QC and trying to break things is part of what I do. SD cards aren't one of them, if your small sample size has a high failure rate there's something that needs to be reviewed.

And do work on the UI/UX, could you sit someone down in front of that screen and in less than 5 minutes fully explain its operation? If not, break it up into sub-modules and look at it from your customers standpoint. If you're aiming for the hobby market then test that market. Right now only a very small segment of Pi users would even know what to do. You can get a ton of help from the very knowledgeable folks here, or you can dig your heels in and ignore everyone and watch your project tank.
Account Inactive

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:10 pm

A question has been raised as to its complexity, the whole idea of the web interface it to network all pis so that all their pin functions and any i2c chips connected can be controlled, edited and programmed from a central place using a web browser, so that all mypi's in that network can be networked with each other so making one huge network with the sharing of resources across unlimited mypis around the world and one day in space, think many of you are thinking of your Pi sitting on your bench, me i dont see one pi i see just a node, for stargate fans see a pi as just one replicator unit, this is why i have so many on 24/7 once they were all as one in the demo but only 2 remain, the office and the main pi as those 2 have 32gb cards installed, the others are having new 16gb cards installed but i wont join them until they run at least a few weeks.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:11 pm

Heater wrote:johnb_summers ,
...dont think you have looked at it enough
Interesting. Where should I look?

I hit the link you gave above and from there to GPIO. Then gave up because I saw the screen I mentioned above.
http://mypiworld.com is where i am writing the help
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:27 pm

SonOfAMotherlessGoat wrote:I hope your project has much success, I'm just trying to give you a little assistance. The small side project that I work on runs on the Raspberry Pi (all models ever made inclusive.) While we may only have +10k site installs of the project, I think that sample size gives me a little insight into the multiple failure modes of the Pi as QC and trying to break things is part of what I do. SD cards aren't one of them, if your small sample size has a high failure rate there's something that needs to be reviewed.

And do work on the UI/UX, could you sit someone down in front of that screen and in less than 5 minutes fully explain its operation? If not, break it up into sub-modules and look at it from your customers standpoint. If you're aiming for the hobby market then test that market. Right now only a very small segment of Pi users would even know what to do. You can get a ton of help from the very knowledgeable folks here, or you can dig your heels in and ignore everyone and watch your project tank.
all it does is connect the pins and i2c chips to a mysql database, so anyone with php knowledge can read and write to the database without having to know anything about the pi or its languages, it is very simple, i mean every thing will interface with a mysql database even your phone. i dont know why you think it is so complex
Last edited by johnb_summers on Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:28 pm

johnb_summers wrote:A question has been raised as to its complexity, the whole idea of the web interface it to network all pis so that all their pin functions and any i2c chips connected can be controlled, edited and programmed from a central place using a web browser, so that all mypi's in that network can be networked with each other so making one huge network with the sharing of resources across unlimited mypis around the world and one day in space, think many of you are thinking of your Pi sitting on your bench, me i dont see one pi i see just a node, for stargate fans see a pi as just one replicator unit, this is why i have so many on 24/7 once they were all as one in the demo but only 2 remain, the office and the main pi as those 2 have 32gb cards installed, the others are having new 16gb cards installed but i wont join them until they run at least a few weeks.
Stargate fan, and if you told me you were going to put a Replicator on my network and hook it up to other Replicators that I have no inherent knowledge of, I'd quietly back away and then run like hell. Your potential clients are the members of the forums here, and we're telling you it's not good. Listen to that feedback, don't tell the customer they're doing it wrong, take the feedback from them and change your product. It's not working.
Account Inactive

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:33 pm

SonOfAMotherlessGoat wrote:
johnb_summers wrote:A question has been raised as to its complexity, the whole idea of the web interface it to network all pis so that all their pin functions and any i2c chips connected can be controlled, edited and programmed from a central place using a web browser, so that all mypi's in that network can be networked with each other so making one huge network with the sharing of resources across unlimited mypis around the world and one day in space, think many of you are thinking of your Pi sitting on your bench, me i dont see one pi i see just a node, for stargate fans see a pi as just one replicator unit, this is why i have so many on 24/7 once they were all as one in the demo but only 2 remain, the office and the main pi as those 2 have 32gb cards installed, the others are having new 16gb cards installed but i wont join them until they run at least a few weeks.
Stargate fan, and if you told me you were going to put a Replicator on my network and hook it up to other Replicators that I have no inherent knowledge of, I'd quietly back away and then run like hell. Your potential clients are the members of the forums here, and we're telling you it's not good. Listen to that feedback, don't tell the customer they're doing it wrong, take the feedback from them and change your product. It's not working.
lol, you get to choose who you link with, again you read to much into it, as i explained it is a simple web interface with a mysql database that has a 2 way mirror of the pins and i2c chips.

if you really want to be part of the project and have a say in its outcome then say so, i am happy to share info.
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 am

Re: SD Cards Blowing

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:40 pm

Sure, what license are you releasing under?

(And spring for the extra costs of rDNS, your website redirects to bare IP and that's flag #1 of "Don't install software from here." Get a certificate while you're at it, they are free now and there's no excuse to not be running one.)

Edit: That IP resolves back to a http://btopenworld.com/ domain, and try to visit that domain in Chrome.
Account Inactive

Return to “General discussion”