W. H. Heydt
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 2:30 pm

Mandrewpi wrote:The pi hut shipping is only like 8 bucks. To Alabama US
4GBP is $4.78 according to an on-line currency converter and that's what Pi Hut charged to ship a Pi Zero to me yesterday.

(I was considering a tasteless joke at the expense of Alabama, but in deference to those responsible for moderating this Forum, I will refrain.)

blaablaaguy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 2:33 pm

Kratos wrote:It seems to me that whenever a new product comes out, the first thing people do is complain about the price. Truly an awesome add to the board! Now my debate is whether to buy a pi3 or Pi0.

Kratos
How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
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RaTTuS
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 2:40 pm

Image
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
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blaablaaguy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 2:53 pm

RaTTuS wrote:Image
So many pi's... Im drooling :o
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 3:09 pm

blaablaaguy wrote:
Kratos wrote:It seems to me that whenever a new product comes out, the first thing people do is complain about the price. Truly an awesome add to the board! Now my debate is whether to buy a pi3 or Pi0.

Kratos
How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I have shown a Pi Zero to people I've met and asked them to guess how much it sells for. I've gotten back guesses as high as $500.

hippy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 3:17 pm

blaablaaguy wrote:How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I can agree with the first two, but not the last. For around £100 I would expect 25 Zeroes or a cased PC, 2GHz Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD writer, 6 channel audio, 4 x USB, Gigabit Ethernet.

$5/£4 is amazing value IMO for what a Zero is, but paying five times as much through shipping costs does make getting one quite expensive and there's no hiding that by inflating the value of a Zero.

There's no getting away from it, as has repeatedly been said; shipping can be expensive and retailers don't have a lot of control over that. As production ramps up and bulk purchases become available there will be options available which can reduce costs.

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Mandrewpi
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 3:20 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: I have shown a Pi Zero to people I've met and asked them to guess how much it sells for. I've gotten back guesses as high as $500.
wow! Thats how much my laptop cost me(it was on sale). :lol:
A computer is only as smart as its programmer. ;)

I own:
Pi B rev.2, Pi 2 B, Two Pi 3 B, Two Pi 3 b+, Pi 4 2Gb, Pi Zero 1.2, Pi Zero 1.3, Two Pi Zero Ws.
I'm known elsewhere as mandrew1444

jamesh
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 3:37 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I can agree with the first two, but not the last. For around £100 I would expect 25 Zeroes or a cased PC, 2GHz Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD writer, 6 channel audio, 4 x USB, Gigabit Ethernet.

$5/£4 is amazing value IMO for what a Zero is, but paying five times as much through shipping costs does make getting one quite expensive and there's no hiding that by inflating the value of a Zero.

There's no getting away from it, as has repeatedly been said; shipping can be expensive and retailers don't have a lot of control over that. As production ramps up and bulk purchases become available there will be options available which can reduce costs.
Strawman argument.

How much would it cost to post that cased PC?

Because that is the correct comparison.

A long time ago a friend said to me, that he find it amazing that you can take a letter to the post office and send it almost anywhere in the world, for £1.

That's £1. Anywhere in the world.

How cool is that? Imagine what that letter has to go through to get there. First it's collected from the post office, and transported to a sorting office. There it is, well, sorted, and then driven to the appropriate airport, where is sorted again, put in to bags, put on a plane, that then flies halfway round the world (note it might be unloaded and put on another plane at some joint in the journey), where it is unloaded, transported to another sorting office, where is is sent to another sorting office, where is is given to someone to drive and then hand carry to your postbox.

For £1.

Methinks people should stop complaining and think more about what is meant by postage and packing.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 3:55 pm

jamesh wrote:
hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I can agree with the first two, but not the last. For around £100 I would expect 25 Zeroes or a cased PC, 2GHz Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD writer, 6 channel audio, 4 x USB, Gigabit Ethernet.

$5/£4 is amazing value IMO for what a Zero is, but paying five times as much through shipping costs does make getting one quite expensive and there's no hiding that by inflating the value of a Zero.

There's no getting away from it, as has repeatedly been said; shipping can be expensive and retailers don't have a lot of control over that. As production ramps up and bulk purchases become available there will be options available which can reduce costs.
Strawman argument.

How much would it cost to post that cased PC?

Because that is the correct comparison.

A long time ago a friend said to me, that he find it amazing that you can take a letter to the post office and send it almost anywhere in the world, for £1.

That's £1. Anywhere in the world.

How cool is that? Imagine what that letter has to go through to get there. First it's collected from the post office, and transported to a sorting office. There it is, well, sorted, and then driven to the appropriate airport, where is sorted again, put in to bags, put on a plane, that then flies halfway round the world (note it might be unloaded and put on another plane at some joint in the journey), where it is unloaded, transported to another sorting office, where is is sent to another sorting office, where is is given to someone to drive and then hand carry to your postbox.

For £1.

Methinks people should stop complaining and think more about what is meant by postage and packing.
What amuses me is that the shipping for a Pi Zero from Pi Hut in the UK is *less* than the lowest shipping cost from Adafruit in New York City. If one complains about the shipping cost, the solution is to get more bits and pieces to go into the same package, reducing the per-item cost.

As for your excellent letter point...consider the rates charged in the mid-19th century during the short life of the Pony Express. When it started, the rate was $5 per 1/2 oz., dropping to $1 per 1/2 oz. later. Then adjust for 150+ years of inflation....

blaablaaguy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 4:16 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I can agree with the first two, but not the last. For around £100 I would expect 25 Zeroes or a cased PC, 2GHz Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD writer, 6 channel audio, 4 x USB, Gigabit Ethernet
Yes, but is that cased pc as small as two aa batteries? ITS SO TINY AND CHEAP IT GOES AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

I wonder how much it wohld cost the RPF to make them. £1? £2?
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 5:47 pm

blaablaaguy wrote:
hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:How can you complain about a £4 computer!? Even plus shipping its still a computer the size of a stick of gum for £20. Youd expect it to be £100
I can agree with the first two, but not the last. For around £100 I would expect 25 Zeroes or a cased PC, 2GHz Intel Celeron, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD writer, 6 channel audio, 4 x USB, Gigabit Ethernet
Yes, but is that cased pc as small as two aa batteries? ITS SO TINY AND CHEAP IT GOES AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!

I wonder how much it wohld cost the RPF to make them. £1? £2?
Given the resistance by the licensed suppliers of other models, I'd guess close to 3GBP.

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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 5:56 pm

jamesh wrote:How much would it cost to post that cased PC?
The last £100 desktop PC I got from eBuyer - pretty close to that spec, 2.6GHZ but only 320GB HDD - was free delivery.
jamesh wrote:Because that is the correct comparison.
I wasn't really comparing, I was addressing the notion that a £4 zero was worth £100.

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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm

blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but is that cased pc as small as two aa batteries? ITS SO TINY AND CHEAP IT GOES AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!
It's a PCB, a couple of chips, a few connectors and a few other components. It costs less than £4 to buy the parts and manufacture. It doesn't have most of what a cased PC has. So why would anyone expect to pay £100 for it ?
Last edited by hippy on Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 pm

hippy wrote:
jamesh wrote:How much would it cost to post that cased PC?
The last £100 desktop PC I got from eBuyer - pretty close to that spec, 2.6GHZ but only 320GB HDD - was free delivery.
jamesh wrote:Because that is the correct comparison.
I wasn't really comparing, I was addressing the notion that a £4 zero was worth £100.
Free delivery = cost incorporated in to the price of the product.

No such thing as 'free' delivery!
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hippy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:14 pm

jamesh wrote:Free delivery = cost incorporated in to the price of the product.

No such thing as 'free' delivery!
Agreed; I paid £100 for a desktop PC and its delivery. But I'm not sure it's at all relevant.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:20 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but is that cased pc as small as two aa batteries? ITS SO TINY AND CHEAP IT GOES AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!
It's a PCB, a couple of chips, a few connectors and a few other components. It costs less than £4 to buy the parts and manufacture. It doesn't have most of what a cased PC has. So why would anyone expect to pay £100 for it ?
Because most people don't know the costs involved. "Cheap as chips" is only a prevalent term among the technically literate. Most people would start guessing by looking at the price of an iPhone or similar device. You and I both know that there is a huge markup on such devices and that the Pi Zero really only has 2 packages on it that are active devices and cost more than a fraction of a cent to a few cents. We also know how heavily automated the assembly and testing process is.

I'm not surprised that people. when shown a Pi Zero, think the cost of it is substantially higher than it actually is. Most people start guessing at around $50, which--on the face of it--isn't unreasonable. When the price of a Pi3B is given, they still sometimes guess around $50. The ones quicker on the uptake tend to go for more like $20.

blaablaaguy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:44 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but is that cased pc as small as two aa batteries? ITS SO TINY AND CHEAP IT GOES AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE!!!
It's a PCB, a couple of chips, a few connectors and a few other components. It costs less than £4 to buy the parts and manufacture. It doesn't have most of what a cased PC has. So why would anyone expect to pay £100 for it ?
Yes, but people dont know that do they? ;) Most would think its a highly sophisticated piece of equipment seeing as theres hardly any other computer that size.
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hippy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 6:56 pm

blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but people dont know that do they? ;) Most would think its a highly sophisticated piece of equipment seeing as theres hardly any other computer that size.
So what it comes down to is treating people with contempt if they think shipping costs are too high. Or maybe there was a missing smiley somewhere.

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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 7:23 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but people dont know that do they? ;) Most would think its a highly sophisticated piece of equipment seeing as theres hardly any other computer that size.
So what it comes down to is treating people with contempt if they think shipping costs are too high. Or maybe there was a missing smiley somewhere.
People always whinge about shipping costs. That's just what people do. People also forget that businesses will not be trading next year unless they make a profit, so they have to charge more than it costs them in order to make that profit.

People get frustrated when the world doesn't go their way, but they lack empathy. Businesses have staffing costs, equipment costs, premises costs and other costs. All of that has to be amortized over the sales.

It would be nice if people would grow up and stop whinging about shipping costs, but it's not all that likely to happen. It's inevitable on such a low-cost item that the shipping cost will not be absurdly low as well. No such thing as a free lunch.
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blaablaaguy
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 8:09 pm

hippy wrote:
blaablaaguy wrote:Yes, but people dont know that do they? ;) Most would think its a highly sophisticated piece of equipment seeing as theres hardly any other computer that size.
So what it comes down to is treating people with contempt if they think shipping costs are too high. Or maybe there was a missing smiley somewhere.
Shippings not RPF's fault, they dont own Royal Mail. Maybe they should complain to the postal service's instead. And i didnt mean to treat anyone with contempt, just saying shipping isnt really a problem for an item that cheap
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 8:50 pm

On the whole shipping cost issue... I don't think it's a matter of the absolute cost of shipping. It's the cost relative to the cost of the item shipped that has people upset. What needs to be considered is that there is going to be some minimum shipping cost no matter what is being sent. It could be a 1 cent screw. It would still be $5 to $7 just to get the item out into the hands of the shipping agency.

What is bothering people is, I think, that with Pi Zeros in short supply and selling out fast, plus--perhaps--using sources other than a given person's usual ones, people are ordering *just* a Pi Zero instead of ordering a bunch of stuff plus a Pi Zero. The result is that the shipping cost *appears* to be disproportionate.

asandford
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 8:57 pm

You can please all the people none of the time,
and none of the people all the time,
but you cannot please all the people all the time.

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alexeames
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 9:10 pm

asandford wrote:
You can please all the people none of the time,
and none of the people all the time,
but you cannot please all the people all the time.
I'd say you can't please all of the people ANY of the time. :lol:
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

fanoush
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 9:11 pm

alexeames wrote:It would be nice if people would grow up and stop whinging about shipping costs
I think most people would stop complaining about price of Zero shipping if they could buy more of them and/or buy them at their local distributor. Currently one per customer rule at few selected UK/US distributors sadly means:

Friends cannot buy 10 of them together reducing shipping to 1/10

No small local Pi distributor can buy 100 of them and sell them with local shipping - one example - in my country shipping any Pi (or even 20 of them) to me from local e-shop like e.g. rpishop.cz would be 40CZK = 1.15GBP. For you it may be absurdly low, for me this is normal shipping price I expect when getting a Pi. And BTW I still consider myself lucky that I can get single Zero from Pimoroni for 3.4times as much which is a bit expensive but still much better than for people from Spain,Italy etc.

So to sum it up it is not just shipping - it is combination of shipping + 1 per customer limit + very few distributors + expensive or no shipping to many parts of the world.

So in case of Zero It would be nice if RPI Trading would grow up instead ;-) allowing them to ship more Zeros and raising the 1 per customer limit solving all points above.

Pithagoros
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Re: A picture from The Pi Hut

Tue May 17, 2016 9:12 pm

Here's an idea.
Distribute the Zero via newsagents, and throw in a free magazine.

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