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Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:37 pm
by Flagbit
Its more RAM! I read it somewhere already!
;)

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:53 pm
by darkbibble
if it more ram doesn't that mean a newer/upgraded main chip? or is the ram separate?

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:21 pm
by 6by9
gregeric wrote:Why does everyone assume more layers are needed? Only 6 tracks are needed for the cam. There are already 4 redundant GPIOs brought out topside on the Zero - do away with connections to those balls, then there are just two extra balls to route out than before. Given that they are geniuses over there in Pi Towers, no prob. My only doubt re CSI at the current price point is the cost of the connector.
10 tracks needed.
- 3 impedance matched differential pairs for the 2 csi2 data lanes and 1 click lane.
- 2 for the i2c for controlling the sensor
- 1 gpio for sensor power control.
- 1 originally intended as the clock, but became the led control line.

It is true that breaking out the CAM1 csi interface is easier than CAM0 as the pads are closer to the edge of the chip.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:48 pm
by fruitoftheloom
darkbibble wrote:if it more ram doesn't that mean a newer/upgraded main chip? or is the ram separate?
The PoP Memory sits atop the BCM2835 SoC, the theoretical maximum size is 1GB but no one manufactures suitable PoP Memory

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:22 pm
by gregeric
fruitoftheloom wrote:
darkbibble wrote:if it more ram doesn't that mean a newer/upgraded main chip? or is the ram separate?
The PoP Memory sits atop the BCM2835 SoC, the theoretical maximum size is 1GB but no one manufactures suitable PoP Memory
Wasn't it revealed that the 2835 has a bug in its memory controller which limits it to 512MB max (fixed for 2836/7)? Seem to remember a comment that a 1GB pop pcb had been fabricated with 2 x 512MB aboard, & it didn't work.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:26 pm
by gregeric
6by9 wrote:10 tracks needed.
Easily overcome - chain Mike to his workstation until he's smashed it.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:28 pm
by W. H. Heydt
fruitoftheloom wrote:
darkbibble wrote:if it more ram doesn't that mean a newer/upgraded main chip? or is the ram separate?
The PoP Memory sits atop the BCM2835 SoC, the theoretical maximum size is 1GB but no one manufactures suitable PoP Memory
There's also some sort of addressing problem in the 2835 design that would make more RAM a problem, so there would--at the very least--be a chip stepping needed. So...if the chip were stepped, it'd probably get the boot-from-USB boot ROM upgrade as well, and that has been ruled out. (The addressing problem was taken care of on the 2836, which is why the P12B can have 1GB.)

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:31 pm
by W. H. Heydt
gregeric wrote:
6by9 wrote:10 tracks needed.
Easily overcome - chain Mike to his workstation until he's smashed it.
Workstations are expensive. Don't want him smashing one.

(And before someone jumps on me...yes, I know what was meant. I'm a retired programmer. I'm ignoring linguistic ambiguity and addressing what was *said*, not what was meant.)

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:53 pm
by DougieLawson
Flagbit wrote:Its more RAM! I read it somewhere already!
;)
If you said that about the A+ then I'd believe you.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:40 pm
by fruitoftheloom
gregeric wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
darkbibble wrote:if it more ram doesn't that mean a newer/upgraded main chip? or is the ram separate?
The PoP Memory sits atop the BCM2835 SoC, the theoretical maximum size is 1GB but no one manufactures suitable PoP Memory
Wasn't it revealed that the 2835 has a bug in its memory controller which limits it to 512MB max (fixed for 2836/7)? Seem to remember a comment that a 1GB pop pcb had been fabricated with 2 x 512MB aboard, & it didn't work.
Total Poppycock & Balderdash.....

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:55 pm
by gregeric
fruitoftheloom wrote:
gregeric wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:The PoP Memory sits atop the BCM2835 SoC, the theoretical maximum size is 1GB but no one manufactures suitable PoP Memory
Wasn't it revealed that the 2835 has a bug in its memory controller which limits it to 512MB max (fixed for 2836/7)? Seem to remember a comment that a 1GB pop pcb had been fabricated with 2 x 512MB aboard, & it didn't work.
Total Poppycock & Balderdash.....
Have you got any evidence for that statement?

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:33 pm
by asandford
An RTC would be handy (placing the battery holder might be a problem, or left for the user to implement).

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:45 pm
by morphy_richards
Could it be a blue LED? ;)

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:47 pm
by Douglas6
Oh man, I hope not.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:06 pm
by hippy
fruitoftheloom wrote:
gregeric wrote:Wasn't it revealed that the 2835 has a bug in its memory controller which limits it to 512MB max (fixed for 2836/7)? Seem to remember a comment that a 1GB pop pcb had been fabricated with 2 x 512MB aboard, & it didn't work.
Total Poppycock & Balderdash.....
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=111712&p=766784#p766749
The RPF managed to convince a memory manufacturer to make a multi-die package that was 1GB and suitable for the interface on the 2835. Unfortunately when they tried it they ran into a bug in the memory controller. So they had to put it's introduction on-hold until they could fix the issue in the 2836.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:52 am
by fruitoftheloom
hippy wrote:[The RPF managed to convince a memory manufacturer to make a multi-die package that was 1GB and suitable for the interface on the 2835. Unfortunately when they tried it they ran into a bug in the memory controller. So they had to put it's introduction on-hold until they could fix the issue in the 2836.
Further down the thread was another response, which stated type not size of memory package, both unofficial:

In the P2 case, the PoP memory doesn't have to physically match the size of the 2836 die because its not mounted on top. So the range of devices is bigger. There was a bug in the controller, but IIRC that limited the type of RAM that could be used, not the size. And no-one made RAM that worked. IIRC of course.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:48 am
by laurent
Funny proposal : why not a (not-that) new SoC ? What about a single-core Cortex A7 ? An existing 2836 with 3 cores deactivaded could do the job ?
The power consumption increase would be not that important, still making the Zero (one of) the less power hungry of the Pi family, and with the ARMv7 compatibility.

But, I realize that "a new SoC" is far for just we can call "a new feature". The improvement is so huge, may be for the Zero 2 ;)

Back to reality, I also expect a CSI connector :P

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:44 pm
by fruitoftheloom
laurent wrote:Funny proposal : why not a (not-that) new SoC ? What about a single-core Cortex A7 ? An existing 2836 with 3 cores deactivaded could do the job ?
The power consumption increase would be not that important, still making the Zero (one of) the less power hungry of the Pi family, and with the ARMv7 compatibility.

But, I realize that "a new SoC" is far for just we can call "a new feature". The improvement is so huge, may be for the Zero 2 ;)

Back to reality, I also expect a CSI connector :P
A change to 2836 SoC requires board space for the memory chip. !!

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:53 pm
by laurent
fruitoftheloom wrote:
laurent wrote:Funny proposal : why not a (not-that) new SoC ? What about a single-core Cortex A7 ? An existing 2836 with 3 cores deactivaded could do the job ?
The power consumption increase would be not that important, still making the Zero (one of) the less power hungry of the Pi family, and with the ARMv7 compatibility.

But, I realize that "a new SoC" is far for just we can call "a new feature". The improvement is so huge, may be for the Zero 2 ;)

Back to reality, I also expect a CSI connector :P
A change to 2836 SoC requires board space for the memory chip. !!
Woops, forgot that little point :oops:
Definitively not that. Can't wait until tomorow we'll certainly know more about this new feature.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:58 pm
by PiAhoy
Even though I love the Zero, I'm somewhat disappointed that this feature may not appear in the Pi 3(although, since it's a firmware/software related thing, maybe it will).

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:59 pm
by blaablaaguy
morphy_richards wrote:Could it be a blue LED? ;)
Yeah, forget the CSI connector! I want a blue led! :lol:

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:06 pm
by DirkS
PiAhoy wrote:Even though I love the Zero, I'm somewhat disappointed that this feature may not appear in the Pi 3(although, since it's a firmware/software related thing, maybe it will).
And the feature you're talking about is....?

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:20 pm
by Douglas6
That would be the quad-core, 8Gb, SATA Pi Zero with blue LED and Icelandic ponies.

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:28 pm
by alphanumeric
A Raspberry Pi Zero BLACK Edition?

Re: Pi Zero new feature

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:39 pm
by PiAhoy
DirkS wrote:
PiAhoy wrote:Even though I love the Zero, I'm somewhat disappointed that this feature may not appear in the Pi 3(although, since it's a firmware/software related thing, maybe it will).
And the feature you're talking about is....?
Ponies, Unicorns...AHH!