ArydeOliveira
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:50 am

eupton wrote:A quick update.

Raspberry PI Zero production is restarting in Wales next Monday after a hiatus to allow us to focus on Raspberry Pi 3 (a million units built and counting :D). We have placed 250ku of new orders, and are aiming to produce at least 50ku/month for the rest of this year. Distribution will continue to be via Pimoroni, Pi Hut, Adafruit and Micro Center for now.

To thank you for your patience, we've taken advantage of the hiatus to add a (much requested) new feature. I'll leave you all to guess what it is (it's not WiFi).

You can receive a notification when available to buy?
Ary

Ghanima
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:40 am

eupton wrote:A quick update.

Raspberry PI Zero production is restarting [...].
Good news that is. Lets hope that the distributors drop that "strictly one item per customer" rule any time soon. I need two or three and would like to share the international order with a friend too. We're waiting for four months now...

Kind regards

Ian B
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:52 am

Brilliant marketing ploy as the community loves nothing more than speculating on new features but probably not needed, let's face it we're all gagging for as many zeros as we can snaffle up as soon as they are available :D until the cat escapes the bag I'll sit back and enjoy the fun

So great news on the production ramp up and equally good news on the number of Pi3 built

I'll be replacing my "shout at the dogs whenever they rattle the gate" Pi2 powered machine with a Zero based offering as soon as I get time to design a new case and I have an RC project which is crying out for the next one that drops through the letterbox

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B.Goode
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:11 am

ArydeOliveira wrote: You can receive a notification when available to buy?
Yes.

For the UK suppliers:
https://thepihut.com/collections/raspbe ... 4062734980 Click on [Notify me]

https://shop.pimoroni.com/collections/raspberry-pi-zero Click on the Hand/Pointer icon next to the Out of Stock message.

mikerr
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:16 am

Move the connectors to the short ends so its more like a stick:

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gregeric
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:27 am

On the other thread jdb has said the connector sizes & location are fixed. I did the stick thing with my home-brew add-on add-under: https://hackaday.io/project/10097/galle ... 4124d1f512

NMaas
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:08 pm

OK, long shot:
As I do work very often with different microcontrollers, vendors release drop-in replacement chips from time to time.
I do not know wheter the BCM2837 was an such replacement with the BCM2835 - but if it was - they could hunk in that chip...
However, if it were - it would still be a long shot, as the price for the new chip would be a lot higher....
and so I doubt that the "new" PiZero will have more power...
(but you're free to prove me wrong ;))

fruitoftheloom
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:22 pm

NMaas wrote:OK, long shot:
As I do work very often with different microcontrollers, vendors release drop-in replacement chips from time to time.
I do not know wheter the BCM2837 was an such replacement with the BCM2835 - but if it was - they could hunk in that chip...
However, if it were - it would still be a long shot, as the price for the new chip would be a lot higher....
and so I doubt that the "new" PiZero will have more power...
(but you're free to prove me wrong ;))
The BCM2835 has PoP Memory which sits atop the SoC, the BCM2836/7 have the memory placed on the board, so a ZERO with a different SoC would need a redesign :shock:
Retired disgracefully.....
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hippy
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:10 pm

Ghanima wrote:Lets hope that the distributors drop that "strictly one item per customer" rule any time soon.
Hopefully not dropped too quickly and it ends up with dozens going to a limited number of customers with those who just want one or two missing out.

It could also be quite disruptive if we end up with stores selling 'packs of ten' and single items mostly as 'with cable' bundles. People buying in bulk 'to use later' will reduce availability for those who would use one or two now.

On the positive; 800K over the next 12 months ( 250K coming soon ), with potential capacity for more. That should allow demand to be more quickly met and production to be adjusted to reflect what the actual demand is. I would still expect there to be shortages for the next six months but does depend on what demand is.

My prediction for demand was a million units upwards with very little of that met so far. If the new addition is something which makes it even more appealing that could easily rise higher.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:34 pm

mikerr wrote:Move the connectors to the short ends so its more like a stick:
Given the way right angled cables all seem to be made, I'd settle for swapping the positions of the USB port and the power connector.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:44 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
NMaas wrote:OK, long shot:
As I do work very often with different microcontrollers, vendors release drop-in replacement chips from time to time.
I do not know wheter the BCM2837 was an such replacement with the BCM2835 - but if it was - they could hunk in that chip...
However, if it were - it would still be a long shot, as the price for the new chip would be a lot higher....
and so I doubt that the "new" PiZero will have more power...
(but you're free to prove me wrong ;))
The BCM2835 has PoP Memory which sits atop the SoC, the BCM2836/7 have the memory placed on the board, so a ZERO with a different SoC would need a redesign :shock:
Certainly the 2836 can use PoP RAM. It's just that the Pi2B wasn't designed to take advantage of that. While the 2837 is very likely to be able to do the same, the thermal envelope would appear to make it a marginal to bad idea to do so. So...if the Pi Zero suddenly acquired a new SoC, I'd think it would be the 2836, and (given what RAM POP packages are available) likely to remain at 512MB.

That would have a possible advantage as the market for Pi2Bs drops off making good use of the 2836, instead of allowing it to just be a historical footnote. I would have said that giving the A+ the same treatment would be a good idea except that there is the announced intent to make a Pi3A. (Of course, I also think that the A+ really ought to get 512MB of RAM regardless of what changes on the Pi Zero or the advent of a Pi3A.)

On the whole, I don't think an upgraded SoC is at all likely to be the new feature.

happy
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:58 am

8Gig of Flash fixed to the board in place the SD card. OK I'm greedy, I'll settle or 4
This gives an increase in reliability for hard to access units or robotic units that are going to be bounced about. This is probably a cost saver as small cheap SD cards become harder to source.
It would require firmware changes to allow you to load the memory from a PC, but should work like a phone that can be a dumb drive or a smarter peripheral.
it would allow the zero to self test, load OS, run checks, collect results, format memory.

If I'm wrong, think about it as a future option












l

jamesh
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:36 pm

People think about new CPU/RAM need to drop their expectations - those are simply not new features! That's a major product release!

And try to remember the cost of the Zero - it's $5 (I assume it's staying the same price). Big changes are expensive.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:12 pm

happy wrote:8Gig of Flash fixed to the board in place the SD card. OK I'm greedy, I'll settle or 4
This gives an increase in reliability for hard to access units or robotic units that are going to be bounced about. This is probably a cost saver as small cheap SD cards become harder to source.
It would require firmware changes to allow you to load the memory from a PC, but should work like a phone that can be a dumb drive or a smarter peripheral.
it would allow the zero to self test, load OS, run checks, collect results, format memory.

If I'm wrong, think about it as a future option
l
I think you're wrong. Read what jamesh said about SOC/RAM change. The same concerns apply. If you want on board eMMC, get a CM and design a carrier board. The CM has what you're asking for and does what you describe.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:55 am

the ability to buy more than one at a go will be the most request ed feature ;)
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mattmiller
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:35 am

+1 (recurring)

Heater
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:40 am

Having even one Pi Zero in the hand would be a significant new feature for many.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

geoffr
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:41 am

RaTTuS wrote:the ability to buy more than one at a go will be the most request ed feature ;)
That would be nice, but it would be nicer if there were some stock released at times which are better suited to those of us in other timezones. For those of us in the antipodes, what has usually happened is that stock gets released in the middle of our night, so by the time we see the email notifications, everything is already sold.

fanoush
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:51 am

hippy wrote: It could also be quite disruptive if we end up with stores selling 'packs of ten' and single items mostly as 'with cable' bundles. People buying in bulk 'to use later' will reduce availability for those who would use one or two now.
Even pack of two (or three) would be great and not that disruptive.
Currently the price of zero is doubled by postage. Selling 2 or 3 means price increase is only x1,5 or x1.33 which is significant.
It would also save the trees (and plastic bubbles ;-)

Increasing to 2 or 3 means it will sell out twice or 3 times faster. Does it really matter if it is gone in 30 minutes or 10 minutes?

BTW, I am not sure how many boards are made together on production line but it would be even possible to sell them together (in pack of two or four?) like chocolate and one could break the pieces as needed :-) Then maybe the combined profit per such piece of 2 could be enough for Farnell etc to sell them since the packaging/handling would be same as for one piece?

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:57 am

So the foundation (ok Raspi Trading) is still determined to go it alone with the zero ?
I'd hoped that was just initial stages.

Over a million pi3 have been made (by farnell) but far less pizero (by Raspi Trading), and even ramping up it'll be far less than farnell could bankroll:
eupton wrote: you’re looking at a small company trying to scale production,” Eben continues. “It’s not quite realistic to compare the [Pi Zero] throughput to the throughput of the big Pis, because the big Pis are being made by billion-dollar, billion-pound companies; the Zero’s being made by us.”
Increasing the price(profit) would allow farnell/rs to make it, and give proper stock levels and distribution.

While the pi3 is undoubtedly faster and more featured - the size and price of the zero means I and others could use 10x as many - without exaggeration.
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:08 am

mikerr,
So the foundation (ok Raspi Trading) is still determined to go it alone with the zero ?
My reading of it was different. The big boys did not want to carry the Zero because they could not make what they consider a decent return on it. Clearly they would like to have 10 percent of a million 30 dollar items than 2 percent of a million 5 dollar items.

Or whatever the figures are.
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geoffr
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:14 am

Heater wrote:mikerr,
So the foundation (ok Raspi Trading) is still determined to go it alone with the zero ?
My reading of it was different. The big boys did not want to carry the Zero because they could not make what they consider a decent return on it. Clearly they would like to have 10 percent of a million 30 dollar items than 2 percent of a million 5 dollar items.

Or whatever the figures are.
I think these are all variants of the same answer. Firstly, the margins on the zero are not enough for the likes of Farnell and RS (at a percentage level). Secondly, to some degree, the Zero would cannibalise sales of the bigger models in areas where the computing power of the Zero is sufficient and where the small size of the Zero is preferable. That further reduces margins nominally.
While it is a difficult discussion, even if it were acceptable to the Foundation to let Farnell or RS build the Zero at a higher price point, it would still cannibalise sales of the larger models, resulting in lower overall revenue, and hence lower margins.

I think the Foundation is making a daring experiment, and I am fascinated to see how it pans out.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:02 pm

Talking to Eben at the weekend, Pi total sales are now very high indeed, well over a million Pi3 sold, total sales in the 9M area. Pi3 still selling as fast as they can be made.

And they have some interesting future plans too! Which, clearly, I'm not going to mention, but they are constantly working on interesting stuff, and not just sitting back on their laurels.

As for Zero's didn't have a chance to chat for too long (I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?), but they are going to selling in pretty big quantities from next Monday. Eben seemed pretty chilled about it all!
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:05 pm

jamesh wrote:.... Zero's didn't have a chance to chat for too long (I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?),...!
congrats ...
so you married a Pi0 ? ;)
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:11 pm

jamesh wrote:As for Zero's didn't have a chance to chat for too long (I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?), but they are going to selling in pretty big quantities from next Monday. Eben seemed pretty chilled about it all!
You invited Eben but not me :(
Then again that means I escaped listening to your guitar playing :lol: (and then someone put it on Facebook....)
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