pik33
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:26 pm

I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:59 pm

I didn't know about overheating etc.. so I started to experiment with arm_clock without any heatsink or fan...

Now my rpi3, with a heatsink and a fan, can boot and display a GUI @ 1300 MHz... ~48C idle, 70C full load

But...

cpuburn-a53 hangs the system immediately even @ 1100 MHz. It can run @ 1000 MHz with over_voltage=5

:(

beta-tester
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm
Location: de_DE

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:21 pm

you will lose your waranty, if you take none official overclocking values and the warenty bit is setted.

i don't think that your RPi is burned (fully or partially).
i mean i was seeing other people who was reporting, that RPi3 will hang by executing cpuburn...
possibly a power supply issue.
and i think the CPU will slow down before it will destroy it self... on the other hand, i don't knwo how the situation is with over voltage settings - i don't know if the CPU has the possibility to protect itself for destroying by overheating by over voltage settings... slowing down will not work then i guess.
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B (1GB), 64GB microSDXC1 class 10, HDMI 1920x1080, keyboard-mouse-combo (wireless), PiCamera, ethernet-cable, 5V/1.2A power supply, Wifi dongle (rt5370)

pik33
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:42 pm

The warranty bit is set because I used experimental audio driver (force_turbo=1)
The PSU is 3A

klricks
Posts: 6154
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:01 am
Location: Grants Pass, OR, USA
Contact: Website

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:09 pm

No amount of OC is guaranteed to work.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Stretch w/ Desktop OS.

beta-tester
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm
Location: de_DE

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:08 pm

pik33 wrote:The warranty bit is set because I used experimental audio driver (force_turbo=1)
The PSU is 3A
force_turbo=1 will not set the waranty bit...
force_turbo=1 keeps only the clock of the cpu in the higher speed and prevents the cpu to go down to 600MHz idle clock when the cpu has nothing to do.
what the higher clock speed is depends on the clock settings (900Mhz or 1100Mhz)
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B (1GB), 64GB microSDXC1 class 10, HDMI 1920x1080, keyboard-mouse-combo (wireless), PiCamera, ethernet-cable, 5V/1.2A power supply, Wifi dongle (rt5370)

User avatar
Flagbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Earth, 51.316°N 9.393°E

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:29 pm

@pik33
Do you use an official PSU and cable?
Does the red LED light blink while booting or during the test?

And are the 70°C in idle?
Sorry, now I see, you wrote already 70° full load.
-- My 2 Cents, Coin Heatsink: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=141441
-- Snappy Pi 3: Coin Heatsink, 1300Mhz Overclocked stable (could void warranty), Ubuntu-Mate on USB-stick

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:51 pm

pik33 wrote:I didn't know about overheating etc.. so I started to experiment with arm_clock without any heatsink or fan...

Now my rpi3, with a heatsink and a fan, can boot and display a GUI @ 1300 MHz... ~48C idle, 70C full load

But...

cpuburn-a53 hangs the system immediately even @ 1100 MHz. It can run @ 1000 MHz with over_voltage=5

:(
CPUburn is synthetic neon workload, and the stress it puts on the pi is unlikely to be encountered in the real world. You need a fan and/or heat sink (and even with that you will probably still go over 80°C and throttle).

A concern with cpuburn may be that if the pi locks up/freezes and cannot power down/reboot (e.g., 'emergency shutdown'), damage may occur to the SoC.

More about cpuburn-a53 power/voltage requirements, and so on:


1. viewtopic.php?p=924124#p924124
2. viewtopic.php?p=919667#p919667
3. http://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topi ... es/?p=6317
The "cpuburn-a53" application is roughly three times more power hungry than the "stress" application and almost six (!) times more power hungry than "sysbench". But admittedly this is just a synthetic workload, which is unlikely to be encountered when running real applications
cpuminer and cpuburn-a53 are way more heavy and might be able to damage a SoC with wrong throttling strategies and missing emergency shutdown mechanisms.
Also over_voltage=5 may be too much. Try 4.

There is a thread for overcooking and optimizing the pi3 that I myself used (I am at arm freq 1300 MHz)

Also, you may want to give stress a go.It'll put a 100% load on all cores, and if you are cooled, temps should hover at around 65°C or so (with full load on overclocked arm, and with memtester running simultaneous 10 loops).

For me, I idle (no load) at around 31°C/32°C (600 MHz, ondemand).


See: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=138840
Last edited by Rive on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:36 pm, edited 8 times in total.
DNPNWO

User avatar
Flagbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Earth, 51.316°N 9.393°E

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:53 pm

Where can I find Information about which Overclocking settings with the Pi3 are save and will not void warranty?

So force_turbo=1 will not set the waranty bit?
Does overclocking like arm_freq=1250 do?
-- My 2 Cents, Coin Heatsink: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=141441
-- Snappy Pi 3: Coin Heatsink, 1300Mhz Overclocked stable (could void warranty), Ubuntu-Mate on USB-stick

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:14 pm

Flagbit wrote:Where can I find Information about which Overclocking settings with the Pi3 are save and will not void warranty?

So force_turbo=1 will not set the waranty bit?
Does overclocking like arm_freq=1250 do?
No pi3 overclock settings are "safe". You may encounter serious pain if you overclock your sdcard and it isn't HC/UHS for example. The Pi3 will (hopefully) throttle in any event if SoC temps exceed 80C, and go (hopefully) back to default voltage, ddr sdram (450 MHz), core (300 MHz), and arm freq (600 MHz) if it reaches 85C (best cause scenario, if overlooks are extreme, it will (hopefully) otherwise simply refuse to boot).

Some are reporting overheating and throttling without any overclock settings at all, while some others have no issue overclocking and keeping the SoC temps below throttling thresholds. The key is keeping it cool in any event (regardless of whether you overclock or not).
Last edited by Rive on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:38 pm, edited 5 times in total.
DNPNWO

pik33
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:54 am

To make things clear:

- my Rpi3 works now with fan @ 1300 MHz, over_voltage=5. It can then do all typical things. It displays GUI, it runs programs, it reaches ~70C when full loaded (make -j 4).

- my Rpi cannot run cpuburn-a53 when arm_clock >1000 MHz. It hangs immediately even if it is cool. No rainbow (undervoltage) square is visible on the screen

beta-tester
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm
Location: de_DE

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:22 pm

Flagbit wrote:So force_turbo=1 will not set the waranty bit?
no, it will not, specially not on RPi3, because of a bug (in hw design or firmware) you have to enable that option to have a relaiable stable serial connection on the GPIO connector. on RPi3 if you not enable that option the serial baud rate is not constant, because it is related to the clock there (speed of cpu, ram or what ever) that will change at idle mode.
Does overclocking like arm_freq=1250 do?
no idea, but for sure the settings that raspi-config is making are all safe - safe in meaning of it will not set a waranty bit - but it does not mean, your RPi will run that stable as the standard default setting, even those settings were setted by raspi-config.
Last edited by beta-tester on Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B (1GB), 64GB microSDXC1 class 10, HDMI 1920x1080, keyboard-mouse-combo (wireless), PiCamera, ethernet-cable, 5V/1.2A power supply, Wifi dongle (rt5370)

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:34 pm

beta-tester wrote:
Does overclocking like arm_freq=1250 do?
no idea, but for sure the settings that raspi-config is making are all safe - safe in meaning of it will not set a waranty bit - but it does not mean, your RPi will run stable on other than the standard default, even those settings made by raspi-config.
force_turbo=1 will not set the waranty bit...
force_turbo=1 keeps only the clock of the cpu in the higher speed and prevents the cpu to go down to 600MHz idle clock when the cpu has nothing to do.
what the higher clock speed is depends on the clock settings (900Mhz or 1100Mhz)
You don't have a pi3, do you? 1200 MHz is the frequency ( not 900 MHz or 1100 MHz). No selectable overclock options/settings in raspi-config. All overclocking must be done in /boot/config.txt

pi3 raspi-config overclock tab:
Image
Last edited by Rive on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DNPNWO

beta-tester
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm
Location: de_DE

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:49 pm

Rive wrote:You don't have a pi3, do you? No selectable overclock options/settings in raspi-config. All overclocking must be done in /boot/config.txt
no i don't, and perhaps never will do...(but that is a complete different story)
then on RPi3 only the force turbo option is applicable to what i sayed.
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B (1GB), 64GB microSDXC1 class 10, HDMI 1920x1080, keyboard-mouse-combo (wireless), PiCamera, ethernet-cable, 5V/1.2A power supply, Wifi dongle (rt5370)

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:03 pm

beta-tester wrote:
Rive wrote:You don't have a pi3, do you? No selectable overclock options/settings in raspi-config. All overclocking must be done in /boot/config.txt
no i don't, and perhaps never will do...
then on RPi3 only the force turbo option is applicable to what i sayed.
force_turbo=1 keeps only the clock of the cpu in the higher speed and prevents the cpu to go down to 600MHz idle clock when the cpu has nothing to do.
I suspect you can achieve the same thing by setting the governor to 'performance' (as far as keeping clock at higher speed when idle)

To set "performance':

open raspi-config

Code: Select all

sudo nano /etc/init.d/raspi-config
Find 'ondemand', change to 'performance'
SYS_CPUFREQ_GOVERNOR=/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
if [ -e $SYS_CPUFREQ_GOVERNOR ]; then
echo "performance" > $SYS_CPUFREQ_GOVERNOR

or open rc.local:

Code: Select all

sudo nano /etc/rc.local
add (text in red):
echo "performance" > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor

“exit 0¨
Last edited by Rive on Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DNPNWO

User avatar
EimGhey
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:27 pm

Well then eat the part the part which isn't bunrt,,,



Oh wait wrong pie!

User avatar
GTR2Fan
Posts: 1601
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: South East UK

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:58 pm

I don't think I've ever seen so much disinformation from a single poster in one thread before. Happy April Fools, Rive! :lol:
Pi2B Mini-PC/Media Centre: ARM=1GHz (+3), Core=500MHz, v3d=500MHz, h264=333MHz, RAM=DDR2-1200 (+6/+4/+4+schmoo). Sandisk Ultra HC-I 32GB microSD card on '50=100' OCed slot (42MB/s read) running Raspbian/KODI16, Seagate 3.5" 1.5TB HDD mass storage.

mi7chy
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:50 am

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:00 pm

All that work and risk for a 100MHz gain?

java
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:41 am

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:22 am

mi7chy wrote:All that work and risk for a 100MHz gain?
My take on it as well, but if it floats their boat - fine.

User avatar
Flagbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Earth, 51.316°N 9.393°E

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:50 pm

On Pi 2 it got allowed to overclock without voiding warranty, a lot of people did.

Here nobody should do it without knowing the risk of voiding warranty.
Afaik because it is not tested what it means to the lifecycle of the Pi 3 or if it could destroy something.

Mine is snappy, I am happy...
-- My 2 Cents, Coin Heatsink: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=141441
-- Snappy Pi 3: Coin Heatsink, 1300Mhz Overclocked stable (could void warranty), Ubuntu-Mate on USB-stick

User avatar
Flagbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Earth, 51.316°N 9.393°E

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:42 pm

i think I can confirm some damaging of the soc by overheating:

On my overclocked Pi3 I also saw some frequency degradation after running accidently without heatsink.

Before I could run 1300 mhz, overvoltage+2 stable with Wlan enabled, afterwards only 1280 mhz and needed the overvolting also with 1250 mhz, before not needed.

I testet it by running this benchmark, giving me errors with WLAN enabled @1300Mhz

Code: Select all

sysbench --num-threads=4 --test=cpu --cpu-max-prime=20000 run 
For protection I reduced the maximum temperature to 75° as I need the higher speed only for some minutes and not for compiling or running endless benchmark test.

My overclocked system with coin heatsink now throttles down to around 1000 mhz when all four cores are used constantly 100% with benchmark programms, keeping the temperature around 71 degrees.

Flagbit
-- My 2 Cents, Coin Heatsink: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=141441
-- Snappy Pi 3: Coin Heatsink, 1300Mhz Overclocked stable (could void warranty), Ubuntu-Mate on USB-stick

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:20 am

Flagbit wrote:i think I can confirm some damaging of the soc by overheating:

On my overclocked Pi3 I also saw some frequency degradation after running accidently without heatsink.

Before I could run 1300 mhz, overvoltage+2 stable with Wlan enabled, afterwards only 1280 mhz and needed the overvolting also with 1250 mhz, before not needed.

I testet it by running this benchmark, giving me errors with WLAN enabled @1300Mhz

Code: Select all

sysbench --num-threads=4 --test=cpu --cpu-max-prime=20000 run 
For protection I reduced the maximum temperature to 75° as I need the higher speed only for some minutes and not for compiling or running endless benchmark test.

My overclocked system with coin heatsink now throttles down to around 1000 mhz when all four cores are used constantly 100% with benchmark programms, keeping the temperature around 71 degrees.

Flagbit
try "stress" (and maybe get a fan with a real copper heatsink using high conductive thermal compound?)

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install stress
while true; do vcgencmd measure_clock arm; vcgencmd measure_temp; sleep 10; done& stress --cpu 4 &
DNPNWO

User avatar
Flagbit
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:03 pm
Location: Earth, 51.316°N 9.393°E

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:08 am

Thank you for the "stress" test options.
But I will stress my SOC not any more as it runs nicely for my purposes with 1,28Ghz as it is.

(Only wanted to point out, not to run it without heatsink when overclocked)
-- My 2 Cents, Coin Heatsink: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=141441
-- Snappy Pi 3: Coin Heatsink, 1300Mhz Overclocked stable (could void warranty), Ubuntu-Mate on USB-stick

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:47 pm

Flagbit wrote:Thank you for the "stress" test options.
But I will stress my SOC not any more as it runs nicely for my purposes with 1,28Ghz as it is.

(Only wanted to point out, not to run it without heatsink when overclocked)

I don't think the hotsink is all that critical. From everything i have read posted by others (and own experience), a normal sized heatsink by itself only shaves off a few degrees or so, and delays by a few min the subsequent throttling. A fan on the other hand, can lower temps by at least 20C using "Stress" and keep the overclocked Pi3 at around 60C, (thus preventing throttling).

You need a fan If you plan to run overclocked especially if you are using an enclosure/case.

Cooling experiment using heatsink vs fan:
viewtopic.php?p=944085#p944085
I used three scenarios and used the 'stress' program to stress the pi3's cpu.
a) Without heatsink: it took about 1min:30sec to reach 80c and thermal throttle
b) With just a Heatsink it took around 3min to reach 80c and thermal throttle
c) With a heatsink and a fan pi3 did not thermal throttle and maintained temps around 60c
DNPNWO

beta-tester
Posts: 1220
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:57 pm
Location: de_DE

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:20 pm

Rive wrote:You need a fan If you plan to run overclocked especially if you are using an enclosure/case.
when the heat can not escape to anywhere off the case/enclosure, then even a fan will not help alot.
(or should i say if no cool air can reach the heatsink to transport the heat away...)
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B (1GB), 64GB microSDXC1 class 10, HDMI 1920x1080, keyboard-mouse-combo (wireless), PiCamera, ethernet-cable, 5V/1.2A power supply, Wifi dongle (rt5370)

User avatar
Rive
Posts: 586
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:21 pm
Location: USA

Re: I (partially) burned my Raspberry Pi 3

Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:28 pm

beta-tester wrote:
Rive wrote:You need a fan If you plan to run overclocked especially if you are using an enclosure/case.
when the heat can not escape to anywhere off the case/enclosure, then even a fan will not help alot.
(or should i say if no cool air can reach the heatsink to transport the heat away...)
Many $5-$8 fan capable enclosures/cases have sides/tops that can be removed for airflow (e.g., the official pi case); others are designed with vents and air flow in mind... it is not difficult to create ventilation for a fan assembly.


For example (official pi3 case opened on 2 or 3 sides for optimal air flow):


Image

Image


Image



other cases:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
DNPNWO

Return to “General discussion”