stderr
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:46 pm

Zebu wrote:I bought 5 Pi2 kits from element14 for work that arrived 2 days ago,

they will do their job as remote desktop terminals along side the 20+ others i have deployed for probably years to come

I Regret Nothing!
You perhaps are not seeing this from the perspective of someone constrained more by their budget. If it wasn't for the fact that the pi people focus on this very group, that they had to make a pi zero at $5 for them, there may be less ongoing tension as these events unfold in this manner over and over.

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rurwin
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:20 am

I don't see it as a deliberate intention to mislead. Anything Ebon said, I believe was true at the time he said it. However things change. Your issue is that he did not retract what he had said when it became false. Which he did not do because it would have impacted sales.

The Osborne effect is real. It may not be as scary as some people make out and it may not have sunk an entire company, but it needs to be factored into marketing decisions. As soon as the next product is announced, sales of the current product will decline. If you have not taken that into account then you could be left with a sizeable amount of unsold stock. That doesn't only affect the Foundation but every distributor and sub-distributor.

I had a friend who owned a computer shop in the 80's. His profit line was severely stressed by the computer manufacturers dropping their prices and bringing out new models. The customers expected him to honour those new prices immediately, even though he had a stock-room full of machines that he had paid a higher price for. If he didn't cut his prices and take a loss then the chain-store up the road would get all his customers. It was so bad that a single employee stealing stock forced him to close the business.

By managing product releases the way that they do, the Foundation ensure that the distribution network is able to plan for the change. You feel chagrined that you bought one Pi that you otherwise might not have. Imagine how you would feel if you had a hundred or a thousand of the things sitting in boxes ready to be sold and suddenly nobody is buying them.

It isn't perfect, there is no perfect solution. Some companies disclose more, but many do the same as the RPF.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:29 am

stderr wrote: You perhaps are not seeing this from the perspective of someone constrained more by their budget. If it wasn't for the fact that the pi people focus on this very group, that they had to make a pi zero at $5 for them, there may be less ongoing tension as these events unfold in this manner over and over.
No I understand that side of the argument very well, I just don't think that the value of my purchase or the utility of the product that I have received has been altered by a new version being released. I think especially if is your first pi and you are using it for exploring possibilities there is a world of learning to be had even from a 256mb pi1 model B.

I do IT within the automotive industry and I can assure you that deals/specials on vehicles and even sometimes new models themselves are often handled in a similar fashion with little to no notice until very close to general availability of the product. There is enough margin in a car that there can be end of model run out sales without having to take too bad of a loss but even so the "Osbourne effect" for want of a better name is always taken into account. it would be infinitely more difficult with such a low margin product.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:37 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
alexeames wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: My biggest Pi-related regret is that I never got an original Model A.
Hal I think I may have a spare one if you want it? :D
Yes, please! What do you want for it?
I have an unemployed Model A (retired from doing sterling work in my greenhouse for a year) for free if anyone wants it ('buyer' pays p'n'p or collects from my part of London).

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:53 am

asandford wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:
alexeames wrote:
Hal I think I may have a spare one if you want it? :D
Yes, please! What do you want for it?
I have an unemployed Model A (retired from doing sterling work in my greenhouse for a year) for free if anyone wants it ('buyer' pays p'n'p or collects from my part of London).
Very generous of you, and very tempting!
Raspberry Pi 3 model B Idle @ 250mA
  • HDMI +200mA
  • Minecraft 1.9 Server +100mA
  • 2.4Ghz dongle +20mA

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:59 am

chrisoh wrote: Very generous of you, and very tempting!
I changed the solution, so it's not needed. If someone else can make use of it then I'm happy to donate it.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:15 am

just get a new pi3. and give the pi2 to someone. anyway its not a must upgrade from pi2 to pi3. but from pi1 definetely better to upgrade to pi3.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:31 am

Yeah, I think I have to agree that it's just reality of the world we live in. However, I don't think it's a bad thing. Things are getting better, that's not something to complain about. The hardware you bought is still capable of doing everything that it was capable of doing. If it isn't worth it to you now, then why was it worth it last week? The only way that's a bad thing is if you think you have to have the latest and greatest thing just for the sake of having the latest and greatest thing. That's not a good mindset to be in as a consumer.

If the objection is to the statement on the FAQ, the key phrases to keep in mind are "as of February 2015" and "this is not a firm schedule".

About the other half of the discussion about businesses buying large quantities of pi2s... I think if you're going to run any business, it's up to you to have a contingency plan and figure out what's viable. The affordable SBC market is still fairly new and still developing, so if you don't take into account that a better or a cheaper model may come out, you just haven't done your research. You can reduce risk and storage cost by buying in smaller batches. Your budget should allow you to absorb the cost of having to sell a relatively small quantity of your overall sales.

Let's say I sell x number of units per month and restock monthly. I would much rather keep selling at roughly the same rate than have my sales drop for months because the foundation announces that a new model might be coming out later in the year. If I don't know about it and it happens, well, the worst case scenario is that I might have to sell some fractions of x units at a loss. Not everybody needs wifi and bluetooth or the new processor, so it might take longer, but I should be able to clear them out. Having a new model out that everybody wants should certainly boost sales enough to help cover the potential loses on the older model.

If you plan things out and find that you can't run a viable business, then you really shouldn't. However, I really don't think that's the case when it comes to the raspberry pi. There wouldn't be so many small resellers, add-on boards, cases and other accessories or interest from huge corporations if the pi didn't have something going for it. If you know what you're doing, you shouldn't have much trouble.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:51 am

I have more Pis than you could shake a stick at - five of them (four B's and a Pi 2) are on line right now. The collection includes original Model A's on mobile robots: chosen for their lower current draw, they were up to the job then and I see no need to update them now. On the other hand, I've been using a Pi 2 in a so far vain attempt to get decent real-time streaming from a pi-cam to my laptop. And yes, I've ordered a Pi 3 from the gentlemen at the Pi Hut; I've been waiting patiently for a Pi 2A (will it now be a Pi 3A when it eventually appears?) and I shall no doubt buy a Pi 4 if/when it comes along. It's a hobby; I do it because it's fun, and while I do occasionally need to count the pennies I don't have to justify any of it on a cost/benefit basis.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:28 am

exartemarte wrote:I have more Pis than you could shake a stick at -
Which, of course, creates naming problems: Gaspode, Greebo, Benfro, Dumbledore & McGonagall (routers), Gandalf, Batman, Robin, Hermione (laptop), Ginny, Lavender, Luna, Hannah, Neville, not to mention the more prosaically named Desktop_mint, Desktop_pi and Radio. I've probably forgotten one or two. (Suggestions will be considered.)

Oh, and print_server.
Last edited by exartemarte on Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:40 am

Jednorozec wrote:You could try a full moon, an obsidian knife and a young virgin. If you do please let us know if it works.
As someone who also bought Pi2's last December, I think I just might try that. It's just really hard to find young virgins nowadays!

Jokes aside, if it makes you feel better OP, I bought 6 (4 to keep and 2 to give away) so I'm worse off than you (I need to find at least 4 young virgins LOL). But while I do understand why you're upset about 'wasting' an opportunity to have bought a newer/better version instead, I'm cool with the whole thing coz I think of it this way: When I bought the Pi2, I weighed its price VS the performance I'll be getting and considered it worthwhile - and I got exactly what I paid for. If I got something worse, I'll be chasing them with pitchforks; but I bought a Pi2 and got a Pi2. Sure, there's something better now for the same price, but at the time when I made my purchase, the Pi2 was all there was and that's what I chose to buy at that time.

Just food for thought: when we bought the Pi2, we bought the Pi2 - that's it. We didn't buy the Pi2 plus a promise that there won't be a new Pi for the next few months.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:42 am

exartemarte wrote:Which, of course, creates naming problems:
Where I used to work the servers were somewhat boringly named after planets. Apart from MissPiggy. And I am reminded of a story in the computing press of an organisation whose new owners were not pleased to find in-house servers called B*stard, F*rtPants and W*nker (my asterisks - Liz might be watching...)

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:49 am

Valcrist wrote:Just food for thought: when we bought the Pi2, we bought the Pi2 - that's it. We didn't buy the Pi2 plus a promise that there won't be a new Pi for the next few months.
Quite so. As it happens I bought a Pi2 a few weeks ago, too. It's still a Pi2.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:09 am

exartemarte wrote:
exartemarte wrote:Which, of course, creates naming problems:
Where I used to work the servers were somewhat boringly named after planets. Apart from MissPiggy. And I am reminded of a story in the computing press of an organisation whose new owners were not pleased to find in-house servers called B*stard, F*rtPants and W*nker (my asterisks - Liz might be watching...)
Many years ago--mid- to late-1980s?--I saw a list of unix systems on the UC Berkeley campus. It was single spaced in two columns and ran 30 pages.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:24 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:Many years ago--mid- to late-1980s?--I saw a list of unix systems on the UC Berkeley campus. It was single spaced in two columns and ran 30 pages.
Ye Gods! If I had that sort of naming problem I think I'd just give them all numbers! Those were the days, though: I remember UCB releases, UCSD Pascal and something or other we used that came from UCLA. University of California must have been a happening place.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:04 am

exartemarte wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:Many years ago--mid- to late-1980s?--I saw a list of unix systems on the UC Berkeley campus. It was single spaced in two columns and ran 30 pages.
Ye Gods! If I had that sort of naming problem I think I'd just give them all numbers! Those were the days, though: I remember UCB releases, UCSD Pascal and something or other we used that came from UCLA. University of California must have been a happening place.
The Chemistry department machines were named after elements. They went through a big chunk of the periodic table. This was back in the day when VAXen were the mainstay of unix systems.

When I was a student at Berkeley--late 1960s--it was considered to be the second best Engineering school in the country behind MIT and the second best at other subjects behind Harvard, but Harvard didn't have any Engineering and MIT didn't have anything else. It was also the heyday of campus demonstrations, but that almost never affected the College of Engineering areas. I would get back to the dorm in the evening and hear about the "terrible riots" on campus, of which I had seen precisely nothing.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:51 am

stderr wrote:I think the problem is that the other SBC makers are providing this heads up and managing to validate successfully.
I said this earlier, but I was just reading about the BeagleBoard X15 and the website said the following and it's for a board without any wifi/bluetooth. So they aren't always getting a pass:

"STATUS UPDATE: RELEASED TO BUILD. We are waiting on the Rev B boards where we made several layout and design changes. The Rev A board did not pass FCC. We are expecting to have the boards in and and tested for FCC in about six weeks (As of 1/25/2016)."

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:07 am

When I worked at Nokia all the servers I had to work with were named after famous things that crashed, Titanic, Hindenburg, Gripen, Concordski and so on.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:31 am

exartemarte wrote: Where I used to work the servers were somewhat boringly named after planets. Apart from MissPiggy. And I am reminded of a story in the computing press of an organisation whose new owners were not pleased to find in-house servers called B*stard, F*rtPants and W*nker (my asterisks - Liz might be watching...)
So their sysadmins were fans of Viz it would seem.
I don't see a problem with any of that, they meet the specification for NetBIOS names.

I worked at a place where servers were named after real ales. Of course there's always one who comes along and says "you can't do that", but, when asked why not, has no answer.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:02 am

exartemarte wrote:Where I used to work the servers were somewhat boringly named after planets.
I do that here. However the RaspPis are named after asteroids, so I'm not going to run out of names any time soon.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:46 am

We've just called a couple of machines we found in a skip May and Hammond. We avoided Clarkson, in case it got up and smacked us in the face.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:57 am

rurwin wrote:
exartemarte wrote:Where I used to work the servers were somewhat boringly named after planets.
I do that here. However the RaspPis are named after asteroids, so I'm not going to run out of names any time soon.
I'm using names from the Apollo program. I've got Eagle, Saturn (which is, of course, the .5 station on my network), Apollo (.11), Odyssey, Falcon and Challenger (that's the name of 17's CM for my new 3B when it arrives). The other four have boring names: aplus, raspberry, pi & raspberrypi.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:02 am

I once worked on a network of Sun workstation which were named after film directors ! :D The only one I can remember was "Almodovar" :shock: Suffice to say some shorter versions soon appeared in /etc/hosts :roll:

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:31 am

See also RFC1178

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:03 am

ShiftPlusOne wrote:If the objection is to the statement on the FAQ, the key phrases to keep in mind are "as of February 2015" and "this is not a firm schedule".
The important phrase is "A further new model may be released in 2-3 years, but this is not a firm schedule."
I think it was a mistake to put that on the FAQ. Why put dates to it at all? Saying you have no plans for another Pi for 2 to 3 years is not useful information and is very likely to mislead into thinking that it will be at least 2 years before a new model comes out.
Since the FAW stays up on the officially maintained web site it has more permanence and an appearance of currency than an interview, blog post or news item. People expect FAQs to ve current but understand that old news is not current.
The FAQ could merely say that "as of Feb 2015 there is no firm schedule for new models."
Last edited by PiGraham on Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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