ghodan
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:06 pm

This happend to me to with the Pi B+ and the Pi2.
I bought the Pi B+ and out of nowhere came the Pi2.
Now i am glad that i have more then one Pi to play with.

I am turning into a Pi-aholic. More official Pi stuff the better ( Iove the official case, i love the official powersupply, the wipi , the screen etc).
I would love to have more official hardware come out like a official mini keyboard or mini keyboard with touchpad build in.
Or a laptop like case kinda like the Pi-top but with a lower pricetag.

So what i did is to give my Pi B+ a boring 24/7 task. Its now my Pi-Hole and VPN server.
And i play around with my Pi2.

So when my Pi3 arrives tomorrow it will become my main play thing and the Pi2 will become some 24/7 server.
I am thinking about prive irc server, mumble server , vnc server.

Hoping that the Pi3 is fast enough the normal browse the internet and play youtube movies it will be my 3rd desktop pc and my bring along pc.
Last edited by ghodan on Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Death Of Time
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:08 pm

I bought the 2B on Friday and should be receiving it today.

The more I think on it the more I am satisfied as things stand. The 3B isn't vetted yet by the public. The software isn't fully ready. I will most likely be buying more PIs if I am satisfied with my experience with the one I will be receiving.

The price is a big plus to. I put five hundred dollars on a new PC at Walmart to see that a newer model was released the next month. That upset me. Though my experience with the PC I bought was more then satisfactory. So the upset proved unfounded and faded as soon as I forgot about it.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:08 pm

I have a convention registration system that uses Pis for data input. For three years I used Model Bs. When the B+ came out, I started thinking about moving to that model because of improved power handling, and I got about 3 or 4 of them to that end. Then the Pi2B came out and I decided that, since the price was the same, I would migrate to the Pi2B. This year, I used Pi2Bs.

The standard benchmark is that the Pi2B is 6 times faster than the Pi1. Even Eben says that the Pi3 is only 50% to 60% faster than the Pi2 (this is consistent with data from Wikipedia on relative DMIPS/MHz and the change in clock speed). I have no plans to migrate to Pi3s for this use because the Pi2Bs are fast enough to work well.

For other uses...yeah. I'll switch to Pi3B boards. But...the Pi2B hasn't slowed down any just because there is a Pi3B.

jamesh
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:12 pm

Death Of Time wrote:I bought the 2B on Friday and should be receiving it today.

The more I think on it the more I am satisfied as things stand. The 3B isn't vetted yet by the public. The software isn't fully ready. I will most likely be buying more PIs if I am satisfied with my experience with the one I will be receiving.

The price is a big plus to. I put five hundred dollars on a new PC at Walmart to see that a newer model was released the next month. That upset me. Though my experience with the PC I bought was more then satisfactory. So the upset proved unfounded and faded as soon as I forgot about it.
Bummer, but nice post nevertheless!
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:11 pm

Heater wrote:The Pi Foundation could have announced that they were going to develop a new Pi with WIFI and Bluetoth, oh and 64 bit cores!, when they started development. Say 6 months ago or whatever.

What do you think the result of this might be?

Many people would immediately change their minds about buying a Pi 2 and decide to wait for the Pi 3. Like yourself for example.

Sales of Pi would drop dramatically. The foundations income would plummet. People would loose their jobs. Development of the Pi 3 would be cancelled. You would not get anything! Disaster.
The flaw with this thinking is that technology companies often publish "roadmaps" to help their customers "plan". This is more obvious in lower level components such as CPUs where companies such as Intel and AMD provide their sometimes fantastical ideas about what they are going to do to the public years in advance. These ideas can sometimes, of course, end up changing, especially on the margins.

But even in the SBC market we see other companies making boards and sometimes, often times, providing a lead time heads up. The whole Kickstarter thing is essentially telling everyone that we are making this or trying to and help us make it happen by ordering it.

The Pi People have managed to give a lead time, albeit inadvertently, with the Pi zero because people have known about it for months but still can't get it in volume. What could've been done with the pi3, to avoid the child who'd broken open his piggy bank to get his first pi feeling cheated, which invariably happens, on up to everyone else who has to budget for these things, would be to end the embargo a month or so before the release so that some lead time existed. Others have certainly done this in the same context of the SBC.
Last edited by stderr on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:13 pm

It's a $35 computer. Let's say that by some magic the existence of the Pi3 stops your poor lame little Pi2 from working - just 'Poof' dead, just like that. You've lost $35. Is this a global crisi? Will it ruin your life?

There are, sadly, people for whom such an amount could make a life and death difference. If you're able to be here complaining I doubt you are one of them.
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MattHawkinsUK
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:24 pm

There will be a Pi 4, 5 and 6. So if everyone could avoid buying a Pi 3 that would help cut down on the disappointment. Thanks.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:29 pm

MattHawkinsUK wrote:There will be a Pi 4, 5 and 6. So if everyone could avoid buying a Pi 3 that would help cut down on the disappointment. Thanks.
Naw...I'm going to collect them all for as long as I live. My biggest Pi-related regret is that I never got an original Model A.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:15 pm

@MattHawkinsUK,

Yes, it's true. Never buy any new gadget. You will always be disappointed. As soon as it arrives and you open the box you find it has been superseded. This has been going on for decades now. Better to never buy anything, thus avoiding disappointment.

@stderr,
The flaw with this thinking is that technology companies often publish "roadmaps" to help their customers "plan".
In turn...the flaw in that thinking is that road maps are not worth the HTML required to put them on a web server.

For example:

Intel iAPX 432 circa 1981

Intel i860 circa 1989

Intel Itanium circa 2001

Or:

Inmos T9000 circa, well who remembers when.

I think the Foundation are very wise to keep keep schtum.

Of course, it's up to them to announce what they like when they like. They obviously have the right idea given how well the whole Pi community is going.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:35 pm

Heater wrote:In turn...the flaw in that thinking is that road maps are not worth the HTML required to put them on a web server.
I acknowledged that some of it was speculative, although clearly a month or two of a heads up wouldn't be.
I think the Foundation are very wise to keep keep schtum.

Of course, it's up to them to announce what they like when they like. They obviously have the right idea given how well the whole Pi community is going.
That they have the largest sales and the largest community isn't necessarily due to this policy. In fact, I'm not sure how it could be attributed to it. It isn't like they need to hype things, they are already news when they do things.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:59 pm

stderr,
...although clearly a month or two of a heads up wouldn't be
Not so easy. The FCC wireless test results are very recent. What if it failed? What if it then took another 6 months or redesign to fix?

Never mind what if that 64 bit core upgrade did not work as expected?

Any development is risky.

Why do they have the "largest sales and the largest community". I don't know. When the Pi was launched there was no competition at anything less than ten times the price. I was on the look out for such things at the time.

After that, the community and network effects take hold. Why swap to anything else, even if it is a bit better at this or that, if it does not have the massive support available that the Pi has?

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Death Of Time
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:59 pm

jamesh wrote:Bummer, but nice post nevertheless!
Just received my 2B and installing the software now. So happy. I got a new toy. I feel so good right now.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:06 pm

I use a lot of:

Model A
Model B
Model A+
Model B+
Model 2B

so far only a few Pi Zero's, but that will change with availability

And I have Pi 3's ordered :)

But I will keep using all the previous ones ... including the RPi2's

I am upgrading my "main" Pi boxes to RPI3's to speed up web browsing & compilation.

Really, the only Pi I don't actively use is my CM Dev Board.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:21 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: My biggest Pi-related regret is that I never got an original Model A.
Hal I think I may have a spare one if you want it? :D
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stderr
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:26 pm

Heater wrote:
...although clearly a month or two of a heads up wouldn't be
Not so easy. The FCC wireless test results are very recent. What if it failed? What if it then took another 6 months or redesign to fix?
I think the problem is that the other SBC makers are providing this heads up and managing to validate successfully. The integration of intentional transmitters that are not just previously certified designs, to the extent that is the case here, might add to the uncertainty compared to boards lacking that sort of thing, I guess. But this embargo until things are go protocol is the standard one for the foundation. I'm not convinced it is the best one, but I'm not making any of the decisions, I should however be able to express my take on it.
Why do they have the "largest sales and the largest community". I don't know. When the Pi was launched there was no competition at anything less than ten times the price. I was on the look out for such things at the time.
There is zero doubt that the pi people changed the dynamic hugely and this has been for the good of consumers. The difficult to obtain Zero has done that again even with limited availability.
After that, the community and network effects take hold. Why swap to anything else, even if it is a bit better at this or that, if it does not have the massive support available that the Pi has?
Of course, everyone has to decide if a particular board and its ecosystem is the best for their purposes. More information in a timely manner can help with that.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:28 pm

alexeames wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: My biggest Pi-related regret is that I never got an original Model A.
Hal I think I may have a spare one if you want it? :D
I have a brace of the 256meg model A that I've got IR cameras in. Is that the original or did they actually ship them with only a buck twenty eight RAM?

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:44 pm

stderr wrote:
Heater wrote:The Pi Foundation could have announced that they were going to develop a new Pi with WIFI and Bluetoth, oh and 64 bit cores!, when they started development. Say 6 months ago or whatever.

What do you think the result of this might be?

Many people would immediately change their minds about buying a Pi 2 and decide to wait for the Pi 3. Like yourself for example.

Sales of Pi would drop dramatically. The foundations income would plummet. People would loose their jobs. Development of the Pi 3 would be cancelled. You would not get anything! Disaster.
The flaw with this thinking is that technology companies often publish "roadmaps" to help their customers "plan". This is more obvious in lower level components such as CPUs where companies such as Intel and AMD provide their sometimes fantastical ideas about what they are going to do to the public years in advance. These ideas can sometimes, of course, end up changing, especially on the margins.
.
SoC Roadmaps are just pieces of paper, but not only that, they are pieces of paper that are not given to end users. For example, the Broadcom roadmap was only given to customers, not the end users of those customers. So people would not be able to predict what phone would have what chip in.

Desktop chip makers, Intel, AMD, publish roadmaps, but that is a very different market.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:46 pm

stderr wrote:
alexeames wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: My biggest Pi-related regret is that I never got an original Model A.
Hal I think I may have a spare one if you want it? :D
I have a brace of the 256meg model A that I've got IR cameras in. Is that the original or did they actually ship them with only a buck twenty eight RAM?
The A was only released with 256MB. There were almost certainly pre-release prototypes with 128MB.

I got two of the Model As :)

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:51 pm

@BMS Doug - Aaron from Pi Supply here. We've been trying to contact you about your order since you placed it and never received a response.

Sent another message today so hopefully you've seen that and can reply there :-)

Of course happy to refund or upgrade to Pi 3s as you wish.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:16 pm

I'm sorry but some people are missing the point here; including some moderators.

It's not that the foundation didn't give a "countdown" to the new release, it's that in effect there was deliberately misleading information stating a new version wasn't going to be developed.

I believe in good faith and since the foundation is a charity I don't think it's unreasonable not to be misslead.

I will buy a RasPi3 also and be very happy with it I'm sure and thanks to all the development team but it's the principle hat counts.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:21 pm

It's unfortunate that it was misleading, but I very much doubt it was deliberate. The Pi Store page was also available until quite recently, despite being deprecated over a year ago. Someone should buy the RPF webmaster a coffee I think.
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:24 pm

Where's my free pony?! :cry:
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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:30 pm

It would be madness to pre-announce new Pis in advance, nobody in their right mind would do that in these circumstances.

It just isn't possible to please everyone.

Those are pretty damn good omelettes being made.

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:34 pm

GTR2Fan wrote:Where's my free pony?! :cry:
I kept quiet about the unicorns this time. I know they won't be included until the Pi 3.14 comes out ;)

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Re: I feel like betrayed

Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:34 pm

Heater wrote:silidor,

Do have a read about the Osbourne Effect to get the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
The impact of the Osborne effect is usually much exaggerated (especially on this discussion forum). It is also worth remembering that many people involved with Osborne at the time do not believe that the "Osborne effect" is the real cause of Osborne Computer Corporation's downfall. Wikipedia mentions Mike McCarthy and Charles Eicher. Lee Felsenstein has told essentially the same story as them, discrediting the "Osborne effect" myth. (For example in this video:https://twit.tv/shows/triangulation/epi ... tart=false)

It is also easy to see that economically it often does not make sense to postpone purchases even when we know that something better should be coming along soon.

I'm not criticizing the Foundation's strategy because it clearly does work for them. I just don't like hearing about the "Osborne effect" as an justification for their strategy, when it is something of a myth, and when the real justification for the Foundation's strategy and the reasons for it's success are really something quite different.

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