hippy
Posts: 5935
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:55 am

stderr wrote:... We might not deliver anything, but just keep your money.
You do understand that this is Kickstarter, that it's about backing business ventures and product development, possibly being rewarded for doing that, not about buying product ?

The guy is proposing developing a "Mini-PC". If one likes that idea, thinks it a worthwhile venture, think he can do that,is a good investment to be involved with; then back it. If one doesn't, or has concerns on what is proposed; then don't back it. No one is compelling anyone to back anything. No one guarantees the success of any Kickstarter venture.

If people want to back a project which has a working prototype but is rather vague on what may actually be delivered then that is their look-out.

User avatar
clive
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1013
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:47 am

I'm sold

It has Umbutu and everything.

User avatar
GTR2Fan
Posts: 1601
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: South East UK

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:01 am

clive wrote:It has Umbutu and everything.
But can it be upgraded to UmBongo for users in the Congo?
Last edited by GTR2Fan on Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pi2B Mini-PC/Media Centre: ARM=1GHz (+3), Core=500MHz, v3d=500MHz, h264=333MHz, RAM=DDR2-1200 (+6/+4/+4+schmoo). Sandisk Ultra HC-I 32GB microSD card on '50=100' OCed slot (42MB/s read) running Raspbian/KODI16, Seagate 3.5" 1.5TB HDD mass storage.

Pithagoros
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:03 am

Just in case anyone is feeling their outrage trigger quivering, GTR2Fan is only referencing a TV commercial for soft drinks.

Heater
Posts: 13271
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:16 am

hippy,
You do understand that this is Kickstarter, that it's about backing business ventures and product development, possibly being rewarded for doing that, not about buying product ?
Exactly.

I think that why we find the kickstarter distasteful. The Pi is developed, the OS is developed, the keyboard/mouse whatever is off the shelf. Not sure about the case but there is no mention of any development or anything special there (anyone identified that case yet?)

There is nothing to it but reselling existing product, all be it in a bundle.

I'm quite happy to back someone with an interesting plan for development and some sign that they have the nouse to pull it off. Fully aware that they may fail. For example I backed the Parallella and the Espruino.

User avatar
karrika
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:21 am
Location: Finland

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:27 am

In any case the Wege enclosure has to compete with tons of other kickstarter enclosures.

Some of the kickstarter enclosures like SmartiPi Touch are really cool. I fell for this one as it is compatible with Lego. (I just need to "borrow" Darth Vader from my kids Lego set. To get the display properly decorated of couse 8-) ).

Image

hippy
Posts: 5935
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:54 am

Heater wrote:There is nothing to it but reselling existing product, all be it in a bundle.
Agreed, but I don't understand why people are getting so hot under the collar about that, consider it to be so wrong that it has to be reported.

I have built PC's for friends. If I thought I could turn that into a business ( as other companies have ), could offer a bundled product which I think the market needs and would sell, then why shouldn't I go on Kickstarter to raise the money to turn that into a reality ?

"The "Ultimateo PCX"; a ready to roll PC, pre-assembled with OS and software pre-installed. Here's a prototype. I haven't decided exactly what hardware, OS or software will be in the Ultimateo PCX yet".

I wouldn't back a business plan so vague but if others want to then that's their choice.

VipeRsan
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:08 am

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:27 pm

Form Kickstarter: Prohibited Items:
We prohibit projects that are illegal, heavily regulated, or potentially dangerous for backers, as well as rewards that the creator did not make.
  • Any item claiming to cure, treat, or prevent an illness or condition (whether via a device, app, book, nutritional supplement, or other means).
  • Contests, coupons, gambling, and raffles.
  • Energy food and drinks.
  • Offensive material (e.g., hate speech, encouraging violence against others, etc).
  • Offering a genetically modified organism as a reward.
  • Offering alcohol as a reward.
  • Offering financial, money-processing, or credit services; financial intermediaries or cash-equivalent instruments; travel services (e.g., vacation packages); phone services (e.g., prepaid phone services, 900 numbers); and business marketing services.
  • Political fundraising.
  • Pornographic material.
  • Resale. All rewards must have been produced or designed by the project or one of its creators — no reselling things from elsewhere.
  • Drugs, nicotine, tobacco, vaporizers and related paraphernalia.
  • Weapons, replicas of weapons, and weapon accessories.

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:42 pm

I went with misrepresentation. There is no way they could design a computer for $49,000 and there is no indication that they are merely producing a bundle. Maybe the KS team will take a look at it and decide that a bundle with a bespoke case is OK. That's their decision to make. I doubt it will be financed though, especially if they are told to indicate more fully that they are bundling rather than designing.

Actually, I rather doubt they designed the case either. The only design involved may be the sticky label.

hippy
Posts: 5935
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:42 pm

VipeRsan wrote:Form Kickstarter: Prohibited Items:
Resale. All rewards must have been produced or designed by the project or one of its creators — no reselling things from elsewhere.
That to me would cover the case of putting a Pi up there as if it were their own creation, simply reselling someone else's product as is.

I would not call selling a bundle of components from others as "reselling" and I would take the work and effort which goes into bundling, configuring, or adding to that, as making it a product in its own right. That is, they produced the bundle, making it acceptable as a reward.

I suppose we will find out if it breaks the rules or not by whether the Kickstarter is removed or stays now people, and presumably the Foundation, have reported it.

Heater
Posts: 13271
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:50 pm

I might be happy with someone wanting to kickstarting a business plan that involved building some useful thing out of off the shelf parts. They source the parts, build it, configure it, test it, warranty it, service it. Could be a computer, could be an electric bicycle, whatever.

This case though is simply supplying a Pi and some extra bits.

What really bugged me that initially there was no mention that the main guts of their product idea is a raspberry Pi. Misrepresentation at least.

Anyway, anyone is free to try and fly whatever business plan they like. We are free to point out what we think about it.

BMS Doug
Posts: 3824
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:42 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:12 pm

clive wrote:I'm sold

It has Umbutu and everything.
"Firefox web browser and Apache Open Office is reloaded."
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

User avatar
alexeames
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:57 am
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: WTF?! TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:44 pm

hippy wrote:
VipeRsan wrote:Form Kickstarter: Prohibited Items:
Resale. All rewards must have been produced or designed by the project or one of its creators — no reselling things from elsewhere.
That to me would cover the case of putting a Pi up there as if it were their own creation, simply reselling someone else's product as is.
ThePiHut is one of the largest resellers of Raspberry Pi. They do bundles. Are you saying those bundles are not reselling? Of course they are. You are simply misinformed as to what reselling is.

As explained to me by a KickStarter reviewer in 2013 "We don't want people just buying things (from China) and putting them on KickStarter as their own products. We're not an online shop."

A KickStarter campaign has to be a project. You have to Make or Do something. Not just buy stuff and sell it. Kano made a case and a speaker and customised Raspbian. It's not clear what these guys are actually doing apart from selling a Pi, an SD card and a case. It looks a lot like they are packaging and reselling (or trying to).

Hardware KickStarters are even stricter. You have to have a working prototype. For them to say "we're using Raspberry Pi for now, but may change" means that they don't really have a prototype clearly defined enough to even go to KickStarter. Frankly it looks like a reaction to the criticisms in the comments. The whole thing looks (to me) a bit like a "quick buck merchant" chancing his arm on KS. Have a look at the effort that went into the updates and you'll see what I mean.
Screen Shot 2016-02-19 at 14.44.10.png
Stunning update
Screen Shot 2016-02-19 at 14.44.10.png (87.69 KiB) Viewed 2066 times
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

Pithagoros
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:08 pm

This is now showing as Suspended by Kickstarter.

saksham2001
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:16 pm

Suspended!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Currently - Studying
I am a Geek ^_^
I am a 16 year old young engineer who loves working with Boards, Gadgets and other cool stuff.
Astronomy and Electronics is my Passion.

User avatar
alexeames
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2868
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:57 am
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:05 pm

I think it's the right outcome, but I don't think it's particularly funny. It could be that these guys really didn't know they were breaking KS rules? WJDK. If that is the case they'll be pretty shocked and gutted.
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

Heater
Posts: 13271
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:12 pm

I agree. It's not so funny.

I can't tell if they are scamming, I suspect not actually, or just don't understand what they are getting in to.

User avatar
GTR2Fan
Posts: 1601
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: South East UK

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:16 pm

Point taken, but there is no excuse for not carrying out a little research before launching a project. Had he spent the 5 seconds it takes to launch Google and type in "Pi kit", he'd have known that this was being done by others already at a more competitive price. Had he read the Kickstarter rules before launching the project, he'd have known that it broke the rules.

All he's doing that the other kit suppliers aren't doing is pre-installing an OS that the end-users are going to struggle to get support for. This choice is also likely to have been made due to a lack of simple research.

I feel no malice towards the guy, but I feel no sympathy either.
Last edited by GTR2Fan on Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pi2B Mini-PC/Media Centre: ARM=1GHz (+3), Core=500MHz, v3d=500MHz, h264=333MHz, RAM=DDR2-1200 (+6/+4/+4+schmoo). Sandisk Ultra HC-I 32GB microSD card on '50=100' OCed slot (42MB/s read) running Raspbian/KODI16, Seagate 3.5" 1.5TB HDD mass storage.

Heater
Posts: 13271
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:33 pm

I guess a couple of days sniffing around here would have set them straight.

As an example, Pimoroni started out with the simple idea of the Pibow case. Not a fiendishly clever idea but with some spark of imagination and artistry. Now Pimoroni has whole business going on.

Pithagoros
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: TheWege - next Kickstarter scam?

Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:41 pm

GTR2Fan wrote:Had he read the Kickstarter rules before launching the project, he'd have known that it broke the rules.
It could be that he genuinely believed that by putting an SBC into a box, plugging in some USB bits, loading an OS and adding some accessories he is actually creating something new. He might well have had a different interpretation of the Kickstarter t&cs than normal lucid people.

Return to “General discussion”