Nemo1966
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Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:59 am

I am pretty new to the Pi scene, however in the few weeks I have used them I have to honestly say they seem very flaky. I have one running a small program (single small program), with a Pihut powered usb hub (apparently designed specially for the Pi). I single card reader plugged into that. The CPU never registers more than 3% at any time, but it crashes the USB/Network randomly 12 - 24 hours. Official 2a power supply, latest Raspbian Wheezy. I have an old Pentium Laptop running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS that hasn't been rebooted in 4 years running the same program! (it's abot the same spec as the Pi2)

I was very excited when I discovered the Pi2 but now I have found out that they seem to be just used for dev projects that are turned off within a couple of hours. The PI and Pi2 seem plagued with low voltage issues and low rated poly fuses that cause many problems including the black art of finding a suitable power supply as not to upset the Pi too much so it will actually run.

Sorely disapointed I must admit - Love the Pi, hate the reliablity :?

I guess there will be a few Pi2's for sale + an official (unused) touchscreen etc /sigh

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:03 am

How much are you asking for the equipment?
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:12 am

What exactly are you after. I have 4xPi2's 2 with 8gig class 10 cards, 2 with 16gig of same. Pihut Hub, power supplies, 7inch screen (official never used)

SonOfAMotherlessGoat
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:25 am

Can you post down in the For Sale section, and we can talk?
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stderr
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:14 am

Nemo1966 wrote:Sorely disapointed I must admit - Love the Pi, hate the reliablity :?
Does it seem likely that that many pieces of hardware are bad? Doesn't it seem odd that you haven't tried running a different OS, not running the program that blows up, that sort of thing?

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:03 am

The forums are not awash with 1000's of people complaining that the pi is unreliable. There is something particular about your setup/hardware/software/ that is causing the issue.......

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:55 am

Have you tried Jessie yet?

The Pi is a very reliable platform.
Many people use them as servers running 24/7 for long periods without issue.

Perhaps you could give us more details of your little program and about the failures and maybe someone here could help?
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:05 am

Nemo1966,

You may have created an unreliable system out of your Pi but you cannot conclude from your specific case that the Pi is, in general, "flaky".

There are 8 million Pi out there. Many of them are being run for long periods of time. We do not see many people coming here and complaining of poor reliability.

Feed the Pi a good diet of electricity and let it work out on some bug free application and it will live longer than you will.

Now, what exactly is it you are running there? What exactly do you have connected? How does it fail? What are the error messages? Any symptoms you can tell us about at all?

Just saying "It don't work" is not very helpful. For yourself or to others.
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:05 am

1) use Jessie
2) have you got a bad USB power lead - do you get brown outs
3) what program
4) what have you get plugged in
5) are you relining on some high power USB device and you have not enabled max_usb_current
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:35 pm

To answer some questions:

No brown outs.

So what is the difference between Wheezy and Jessie? Are you saying Jessie is more stable?

Thanks

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:51 pm

no knowing anytthiing about your setup makes it hard to guess what is going wrong
so,
load up the latest version of raspbain
see if it is stable
what is this program you are running
compile it / install it / run it
is anything mentioned in the log files
what does it do
etc
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:18 pm

I am running the very latest version of wheezy 4.1.13-v7+ #826 SMP. The stsem does seem stable "IF" it is doing nothing.

There is nothing in the usb ports except the pihut usb hub with it's own 2amp power supply. 1 item in the hub (omnikey usb card reader 3121) Ethernet connected (hardwired). No other peripherals.

Yet randomly the usb/network drops and only reboot will fix. Which logs would help to find out whats happening?

thanks

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:25 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:I am running the very latest version of wheezy 4.1.13-v7+ #826 SMP. The stsem does seem stable "IF" it is doing nothing.

There is nothing in the usb ports except the pihut usb hub with it's own 2amp power supply. 1 item in the hub (omnikey usb card reader 3121) Ethernet connected (hardwired). No other peripherals.

Yet randomly the usb/network drops and only reboot will fix. Which logs would help to find out whats happening?

thanks
'dmesg' as soon as it happens might help.

I had ethernet problems when using the camera - the power drop when camera started caused the ethernet to drop out.I have a bench power supply, so was confused, until I changed the USB power lead. WHich was basically a load of cack. In short, power problems can cause what you are seeing.
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:26 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:http://www.megahard.pro/blog/raspberryw ... waredesign

Explains quite a lot.
Well,,, looking at some of the links I'm not too sure (especially the ones pointing to seriously outdated info on elinux)

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RaTTuS
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:31 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:http://www.megahard.pro/blog/raspberryw ... waredesign

Explains quite a lot.
not really that has way too much FUD to be IMO

[edit]
to put it anotherway
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Last edited by RaTTuS on Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:39 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:http://www.megahard.pro/blog/raspberryw ... waredesign

Explains quite a lot.
A lot of crap.
Polyfuses on USB outputs? That was only on the very first models.
Bad power supplies or cables? We all know that, but that's not a problem of the RPi itself.
SD card problems? Long time ago, except for crappy or fake SD cards.
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:39 pm

RaTTuS wrote:
Nemo1966 wrote:http://www.megahard.pro/blog/raspberryw ... waredesign

Explains quite a lot.
not really that has way too much FUD to be IMO
So it is not true then?

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:40 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:http://www.megahard.pro/blog/raspberryw ... waredesign

Explains quite a lot.
What does that explain? Potential power issues are well known and need to be sidestepped. If you can't accept the USB design, then there are other SBCs out there.

Regarding booting from sdcards, this isn't uncommon at all in cheap similar boards. I think a lot of the reason for corruption is the file system and how it is shutdown and not really that it's a pi. I certainly have had problems with the on board flash on the Beagle Bone Black becoming unbootable for some reason.

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:44 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:I am pretty new to the Pi scene, however in the few weeks I have used them I have to honestly say they seem very flaky. I have one running a small program (single small program), with a Pihut powered usb hub (apparently designed specially for the Pi). I single card reader plugged into that. The CPU never registers more than 3% at any time, but it crashes the USB/Network randomly 12 - 24 hours. Official 2a power supply, latest Raspbian Wheezy. I have an old Pentium Laptop running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS that hasn't been rebooted in 4 years running the same program! (it's abot the same spec as the Pi2)

I was very excited when I discovered the Pi2 but now I have found out that they seem to be just used for dev projects that are turned off within a couple of hours. The PI and Pi2 seem plagued with low voltage issues and low rated poly fuses that cause many problems including the black art of finding a suitable power supply as not to upset the Pi too much so it will actually run.

Sorely disapointed I must admit - Love the Pi, hate the reliablity :?

I guess there will be a few Pi2's for sale + an official (unused) touchscreen etc /sigh
Having tried to read the whole thread, a SBC with eMMC Hard Drive instead of a SD Card may be better :?:

Alternatively there are several SBC coming to market which like your Laptop use x86 CPU Architecture :!:
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:13 pm

Having tried to read the whole thread, a SBC with eMMC Hard Drive instead of a SD Card may be better
I would agree
Alternatively there are several SBC coming to market which like your Laptop use x86 CPU Architecture
It's not really the CPU architecture but the way the system/usb is powered and restricted by poly fuses.

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:18 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:
Having tried to read the whole thread, a SBC with eMMC Hard Drive instead of a SD Card may be better
I would agree
Alternatively there are several SBC coming to market which like your Laptop use x86 CPU Architecture
It's not really the CPU architecture but the way the system/usb is powered and restricted by poly fuses.
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=133471
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Nemo1966
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:25 pm

What does that explain? Potential power issues are well known and need to be sidestepped. If you can't accept the USB design, then there are other SBCs out there.
Now you see this is the bit I do not understand. Sidestepped? I have an official Pi2, official 2amp power supply and a PiHut Pi designed USB hub with it's own 2amp power supply (all with supplied cables). What exactly should I be sidestepping and why?

If you bought any other product with all the official power supplies etc and it didn't work e.g. you were forced to start buying different power supplies and hoping for the the best and specialised USB cables then you would class it as not fit for the job and send it back.

Additionally the article link I posted makes another good point - Raspberry Pi2, super mini computing! - but if you need to use any USB periferals then you need to add an external USB hub (but be careful it has to be one from a special list). Which sort of negates in being a super mini device.

As far as accepting the design, well it says it has 4 USB ports - I foolishly thought they were USABLE usb ports.

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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:40 pm

The USB ports can supply up to 600mA and 1.2A if a certain option is set in config.txt. That's very well documented. There is no need for a powered hub, if you don't need more than 1.2 A (for all 4 USB devices together). It can even power an external USB HDD (all my RPi2s do).
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Re: Pi2 is flaky and keeps crashing

Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:45 pm

Nemo1966 wrote:
As far as accepting the design, well it says it has 4 USB ports - I foolishly thought they were USABLE usb ports.
Just because you're having trouble with them doesn't mean that they're not usable. I'm sorry that you're struggling with your Pi2Bs, but mine has been running as a desktop PC and media centre pretty much 24/7 for several weeks now with all 4 USB ports occupied (WiFi dongle, wireless keyboard and mouse dongle/USB printer/external HDD) whilst being heavily overclocked and hasn't missed a beat except when I've been experimenting with pushing the limits of the overclock, which is clearly my own fault.

As a moderator said earlier, if the problems you were experiencing were common then this forum would be awash with complaints about it, but it isn't. Please stay calm and try to work through this problem logically as something is clearly going wrong at your end that isn't happening to nearly any other user.
Last edited by GTR2Fan on Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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