emma1997
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:11 pm

I was able to snag another one for a grand total of 3 now. This time thanks to the thread. And the $17 dollar deal is still in stock ATM. So looks like there actually is some advantage to keeping on topic, otherwise I might have missed the heads up here which is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
fruitoftheloom wrote:Seems this thread has gone off-topic like the last one, all these I want / need / demand have ****** to do with the title of this thread..
Probably less chance of locking though because no comments critical of forum staff or policies. :)

IeuanG
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:17 pm

Finally got one, thanks

Pithagoros
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:19 pm

piglet wrote: Ah well. I've given up waiting for the £4 availabilty. £10.50 it is for one with cables I don't need or want.
I think if Pimoroni have received a batch then it is likely that the other vendors will get some too, so worth watching out for ModyMyPi to load up their web shop with new stock.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:20 pm

emma1997 wrote: Probably less chance of locking though because no comments critical of forum staff or policies. :)
No direct ones ;)

hippy
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:37 pm

jamesh wrote:All good points, but the B2 is 6 times (or more with NEON) faster, has twice the RAM, has ethernet, 4 USB's, attached GPIO, CSI, DSI. FOr an extra $24

Whichever way you look at it, the Pi2B is really cheap for the performance, and the Zero is really cheap for the performance.
Absolutely agreed. And if someone wants or needs the capacity or performance of a 2B there is little doubt that is what is best to get. It is also what I would recommend for anyone starting out with a Pi if they can afford it, a B+ if on a lower budget.

For many people though the power of the 2B is not required and a B+ will do just fine, and even the A+ or Zero. Paying more for something one doesn't need or want is just a waste, taking money which could be better spent on something one does need or want.

The bottom line is that it isn't people who want a 2B or would be better off with one who are the market for Zeroes; it's the people who want Zeroes who are.

There are some who want more on their Zero, would like it to be a cheap A+, B+ or 2B, have Wi-Fi or ethernet, camera or display connector as standard, but most want the Zero for what it is. It might be nice, and would be nicer, with more but it's not essential for most people.

I guess it's simply not seeing how the Zero is seen by others which makes it hard to fathom why there is such a demand for it.

I suspect that's mainly because Pi computers are still perceived as computers for facilitating education, the Foundation are still an educational oriented charity, even though Pi computers are mostly used as application platforms, and the Zero particularly fits that niche.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:48 pm

Pithagoros wrote: I think if Pimoroni have received a batch then it is likely that the other vendors will get some too, so worth watching out for ModyMyPi to load up their web shop with new stock.
Wasn't a new delivery- just some "left over" - said 44 in stock when I first looked.
twitter wrote:@pimoroni ‏1:01 PM - 5 Jan 2016

We've just released a small number of Pi Zero left over from previous batches - move fast! One per order!
https://twitter.com/pimoroni/status/684359058783088640


Did they find a box of 50 Zeroes hiding in the back of the store room or what ? :)
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Pithagoros
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:55 pm

mikerr wrote: Did they find a box of 50 Zeroes hiding in the back of the store room or what ? :)
It was more than 50, because there were 50 at £24, 50 at £12 etc and the number of stock were decrementing independently.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:57 pm

Pithagoros wrote:Interesting how the £4 zeros disappear very quickly, but the bundles, even the cheaper bundles are still hanging around. Perhaps zeros are being bought by people that already have one and have the adapters.
Perhaps, or they think they can get adapters elsewhere cheaper and don't want to pay the mark-up. I would personally be willing to pay the mark-up premium to get a Zero but wouldn't need the cables because I am not planning to use my Zero connected to USB or TV.

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piglet
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Yup. My new cables will go straight into one of my overflowing cable boxes...

HeadCase
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:26 pm

I finally managed to get one - it only took 5 weeks!

Back when the Pi first started I made people laugh when I suggested sales of about 10 million. That doesn't look that crazy now. With the Pi Zero I am thinking more like 50 million - and that could be a vast under estimation. The thing about a $5 computer is that it is a component. Apart from the various educational and hacker markets, you just can't avoid the fact that here is a $5 item that can appear in a BOM next to an inductor or a transistor - which encapsulates most of the intellectual output of our civilization from the last few centuries. It doesn't really matter what it does either. Flipping a thermostat relay or running an info kiosk, it only needs to make a $5 difference to the world and its ahead. The idea of using a Pi0 as a Pirate Radio Throwie http://makezine.com/projects/pirate-radio-throwies/ means only one thing ... you ain't seen nothin yet! The CIA will be dropping them out of planes like propaganda leaflets!

Maybe one of the great advantages of the Pi Foundation is that being a charity they are unhindered by the rules everyone else plays by. No sensible profit driven corporation would make a $5 computer. The Google guy was probably right - make a ridiculously cheap product, sell tens of millions, and suddenly you are the 500lb gorilla.

The tricky part of this speculative theory is this. If the Pi Zero has opened up a bottomless pit of demand, to actually make and distribute 50 million RPi0's over a few years you would need to build and distribute about 50K a day. That is a lot!

BTW, if you think this is crazy talk, look at Microchip - "In September 2011, Microchip Technology shipped the 10 billionth PIC microcontroller." - the future will be full of smart chips, and all the better if they can be programmed in Python.

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:53 pm

It's not crazy talk. I agree. The future will be full of smart chips, and all the better if they can be programmed in Javascript.

:)
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:02 pm

liz wrote:
On a more general point... Has anyone who has a Pi Zero looked to see where it is made? I understand that manufacturing in China is down, so there are probably some pretty hungry factory managers over there who might be really, really interested in making Pi Zeros, even if the margins are razor thin.
Wales. They're all being made in Pencoed. (Again, we've been pleased to find that the Sony factory we use was more than able to match prices we got from overseas. Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)
Thanks for that. Perhaps Sony can add capacity...because I think, in the long run, they're going to need it. Either that, or Pencoed stops being a general contract facility and becomes just a Raspberry Pi manufacturing facility. (I can see it now...a big sign out front: Home of the Raspberry Pi.)

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:04 pm

Burngate wrote:
liz wrote:... and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.
I have* to ask: what is "normal"?

There not having been anything like the Zero, before, it seems to me that "normal" is something like an extreme Easter - a movable feast that sometimes coincides with Christmas.


* maybe not "have", more like "want"
Since the sales of Pis (of all models) doesn't seem to be leveling off...it is very difficult to imagine what the "normal levels" might be.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:12 pm

hippy wrote:
jamesh wrote:I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2.
£4 versus £28; that's more than a few quid, even when interface cables and hubs are included. It isn't as good or as powerful as the Pi 2 but it is excellent as a cheaper A+ or B+ alternative.
A fairer cost comparison would be to the A+, rather than to the Pi2B.
The low cost makes the Zero almost disposable, which opens the door to people being willing to risk doing more with it than a more expensive Pi, especially hardware interfacing and hacking. It's also likely bought as a 'second board' so any loss or damage won't affect their main Pi and its use.
Agreed. Just as the original *idea* of the Pi was to be a disposable level expense, the Pi0 makes it so for far more people and uses.

As for "second board"...surely you're joking. I'm up to 12 Pi2Bs and I still need to get a couple more over the coming few months. I haven't had as few as two Pis since along about May 2012.
It's also cheap enough for everyone to create a mini-cluster or to just 'double their Pi' for loose change prices.

I think the Foundation have perhaps underestimated the appeal and demand for the Pi Zero as they did when the Pi first launched. I would say there's probably a market for two million out there at present, perhaps more. It could again take a long time for supply to catch up with demand.
Just what the realistic demand is very much depends on the sorts of use cases people come up with. You could easily be low by an order of magnitude over the next few years. Plus, if there is ever an upgrade (call it a "Pi0.2", for lack of a better term), many of the existing Pi0s would be replaced...and more added to what people are doing.

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Burngate
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:20 pm

HeadCase wrote:The CIA will be dropping them out of planes like propaganda leaflets!
So that's why the recent Telegraph letters pages are going on about littering.
It's nothing to do with people dropping chewing gum - it's a way to get £150 a shot from the Americans.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:44 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
liz wrote:
On a more general point... Has anyone who has a Pi Zero looked to see where it is made? I understand that manufacturing in China is down, so there are probably some pretty hungry factory managers over there who might be really, really interested in making Pi Zeros, even if the margins are razor thin.
Wales. They're all being made in Pencoed. (Again, we've been pleased to find that the Sony factory we use was more than able to match prices we got from overseas. Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)
Thanks for that. Perhaps Sony can add capacity...because I think, in the long run, they're going to need it. Either that, or Pencoed stops being a general contract facility and becomes just a Raspberry Pi manufacturing facility. (I can see it now...a big sign out front: Home of the Raspberry Pi.)
The difficulty is more likely to be supply of the SoC. Takes a few months to ramp up production, and since the Zero seems much more popular than expected (certainly than I expected!), I suspect that is the limiting factor. That's my thoughts on it - I have no actual knowledge.
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HeadCase
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:21 pm

I wonder if anyone has considered the non-technical applications of the RPi0? Jewellery, Key Fobs, clothing. At $5 a lot of people would not think twice about putting a Zero on their keyring - never powered up - just to make your keys easier to pick up and show you are a techie. A belt buckle? Sixteen year old teenagers might decide that sewing a Pi0 on the left shoulder of their jacket is cool and BAM! you have a few tens of thousands of Pi0 in High Street fashion shops. Never to be turned on! Never booted! Billions of transistors laying idle just as a fashion statement.

The thing is that $5 is sort of like beer money, so no matter what the computing credentials of the RPi0 are, it has entered the murky netherworld of burgers, fruit smoothies and the two dollar shop. It may be the first time in history where one of the most useful objects ever made gets to slum it with the least useful objects ever made.

Eben has lit the fuse. Interesting times.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:45 pm

Yes, far from being "a cheap curiousity", my mind is exploding with uses for the Zero, and in many cases instead of larger pi.

USB hubs, ethernet, and wifi are all available separately and cheaply - so the larger pi aren't as attractive even if you want one or two absent features of the zero, only the CSI interface is missing.

Pi-2 obviously stands separate on a performance basis.
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:23 pm

HeadCase wrote: The thing is that $5 is sort of like beer money, so no matter what the computing credentials of the RPi0 are, it has entered the murky netherworld of burgers, fruit smoothies and the two dollar shop. It may be the first time in history where one of the most useful objects ever made gets to slum it with the least useful objects ever made.
Jim Manley has told me that he was already trying to get the relevant Powers that Be in his school district to treat the Pi2B as a consumable item (which they class $250 color laser cartridges as already), so you can imagine how his argument will go with the $5 Pi0...hence his wish for the district to get them by the 10s of thousands.
Eben has lit the fuse. Interesting times.
Good line. Very low price, solid software, good support (so long as we can stand the strain here...), and the RPF was already the 800-lb gorilla in the SBC room.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:17 pm

jamesh wrote:... supply of the SoC. Takes a few months to ramp up production, and since the Zero seems much more popular than expected (certainly than I expected!), I suspect that is the limiting factor. That's my thoughts on it - I have no actual knowledge.
Do we have any information on where the SoCs are produced, or who by? (I'm assuming Broadcom don't have their own fab, but only because no-one's told me they do have)

Same goes for the bare boards.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:34 pm

If you want to know where the SoCs might be made see this:

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Broadcom ... abrication

Of course it does not say exactly which fab makes what.
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:52 pm

Thanks for that.
Amazing what's out there when you know where to look!

I would imagine it's horses for courses, combined with who's cheapest, and who's got capacity to spare.

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:55 pm

Burngate wrote:
jamesh wrote:... supply of the SoC. Takes a few months to ramp up production, and since the Zero seems much more popular than expected (certainly than I expected!), I suspect that is the limiting factor. That's my thoughts on it - I have no actual knowledge.
Do we have any information on where the SoCs are produced, or who by? (I'm assuming Broadcom don't have their own fab, but only because no-one's told me they do have)

Same goes for the bare boards.
Brcm don't own any fabs. Usually go to Taiwan IIRC.
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blc
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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:28 pm

jamesh wrote:Brcm don't own any fabs. Usually go to Taiwan IIRC.
Out of curiosity, TSMC? Appreciate if you can't say...

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Re: Pi Zero Availability

Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:26 am

blc wrote:
jamesh wrote:Brcm don't own any fabs. Usually go to Taiwan IIRC.
Out of curiosity, TSMC? Appreciate if you can't say...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMRUHGnN29s
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