Somebody said "Stack'm high sell'm cheap".
Only missing part in the Zero story so far is "Stack'm high".
Not actually the case (although the profit we make is very small) - we're making them as fast as we can. Demand has been...well, extraordinary (especially since so many people want to buy in large multiples). So it's taking some time for them to get through to channel, and for the foreseeable we're not going to be permitting bulk sales, so more individuals can get their hands on them. But they ARE constantly on the line, and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.jamesh wrote:As I have said before, I think the Zero will always be made is low quantities, simply because there is little or no profit to be made on them. No profit = No Foundation.
Yah see! Told you it was my own thoughts! Thanks for the clarification Liz.liz wrote:Not actually the case (although the profit we make is very small) - we're making them as fast as we can. Demand has been...well, extraordinary (especially since so many people want to buy in large multiples). So it's taking some time for them to get through to channel, and for the foreseeable we're not going to be permitting bulk sales, so more individuals can get their hands on them. But they ARE constantly on the line, and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.jamesh wrote:As I have said before, I think the Zero will always be made is low quantities, simply because there is little or no profit to be made on them. No profit = No Foundation.
I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2. But my use case is probably different from all the makers who want to put them in robots etc, and that said, the Zero certainly has found a market! Of course they are here to stay! As are all the others ones! The more Pi models the better, since they are all compatible, you get a range of devices to cover a whole plethora of different use cases, can move code from one to another to pick the best model for the job. And best of all, they are al incredible cheap.karrika wrote:It is obvious why PiZero gets so much interest.
Today computers are complicated. Many hobbyists like me program for old computers like Atari Lynx or Commodore 64 because things were so simple in the old days. It is relaxing. A hobby.
The Raspberry Pi has brought the simplicity back. You have GPIO pins, modular simple add on HATs, python, scratch. And now an even simpler PiZero.
It is a nice feeling of being able to control a computer. Most people today have the feeling that they are being controlled by computers instead.
I hope that PiZeros are here to stay.
Thank you, Liz. Much appreciated comment.liz wrote:Not actually the case (although the profit we make is very small) - we're making them as fast as we can. Demand has been...well, extraordinary (especially since so many people want to buy in large multiples). So it's taking some time for them to get through to channel, and for the foreseeable we're not going to be permitting bulk sales, so more individuals can get their hands on them. But they ARE constantly on the line, and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.jamesh wrote:As I have said before, I think the Zero will always be made is low quantities, simply because there is little or no profit to be made on them. No profit = No Foundation.
I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device,
Agreed...especially about the demand being strange, though one consideration there is: How many collectors are there out in the community who want at least one of every Pi model they can get? That alone could drive a demand for hundreds of thousands to--possibly--low millions.jamesh wrote:I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2. But my use case is probably different from all the makers who want to put them in robots etc, and that said, the Zero certainly has found a market! Of course they are here to stay! As are all the others ones! The more Pi models the better, since they are all compatible, you get a range of devices to cover a whole plethora of different use cases, can move code from one to another to pick the best model for the job. And best of all, they are al incredible cheap.karrika wrote:It is obvious why PiZero gets so much interest.
Today computers are complicated. Many hobbyists like me program for old computers like Atari Lynx or Commodore 64 because things were so simple in the old days. It is relaxing. A hobby.
The Raspberry Pi has brought the simplicity back. You have GPIO pins, modular simple add on HATs, python, scratch. And now an even simpler PiZero.
It is a nice feeling of being able to control a computer. Most people today have the feeling that they are being controlled by computers instead.
I hope that PiZeros are here to stay.
Thank you for *that* information as well.liz wrote:Hal (and everybody else) - don't order from RS or Farnell or affiliates: the main stockists in the US are Adafruit and Microcenter (which may be what's causing some of the confusion). The margins we wanted partners to stick to are very low, and our usual distributors didn't fancy it (although other retailers are reporting some very good figures - pays to stick your neck out in this business).
liz wrote:Hal (and everybody else) - don't order from RS or Farnell or affiliates: the main stockists in the US are Adafruit and Microcenter (which may be what's causing some of the confusion). The margins we wanted partners to stick to are very low, and our usual distributors didn't fancy it (although other retailers are reporting some very good figures - pays to stick your neck out in this business).
Thanks Liz, that's the news we all wanted to hear.liz wrote:We're making them as fast as we can. Demand has been...well, extraordinary (especially since so many people want to buy in large multiples). So it's taking some time for them to get through to channel, and for the foreseeable we're not going to be permitting bulk sales, so more individuals can get their hands on them. But they ARE constantly on the line, and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.
Thanks, Liz - I KNEW it! I realize you can't comment on whether there's an impact of Zeroes in cannibalizing sales of their bigger siblings, but that will someday be a great tidbit to hear over the finest in El Torritos or other local San Mateo cuisineliz wrote:Not actually the case (although the profit we make is very small) - we're making them as fast as we can. Demand has been...well, extraordinary (especially since so many people want to buy in large multiples). So it's taking some time for them to get through to channel, and for the foreseeable we're not going to be permitting bulk sales, so more individuals can get their hands on them. But they ARE constantly on the line, and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.jamesh wrote:As I have said before, I think the Zero will always be made is low quantities, simply because there is little or no profit to be made on them. No profit = No Foundation.
I have* to ask: what is "normal"?liz wrote:... and you WILL see numbers in stores tick up as the demand gets to normal levels.
Wales. They're all being made in Pencoed. (Again, we've been pleased to find that the Sony factory we use was more than able to match prices we got from overseas. Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)On a more general point... Has anyone who has a Pi Zero looked to see where it is made? I understand that manufacturing in China is down, so there are probably some pretty hungry factory managers over there who might be really, really interested in making Pi Zeros, even if the margins are razor thin.
Yes, I can imagine. In the early eighties, I was involved in getting the London school authorities to approve the purchase of cheap, easy, convenient BBC computers -- against a much more expensive brand they preferred, for some unknown reason. At one point an officer from the authority told a meeting called by a head teacher that the BBC couldn't do program overlays, so would never run large programs like their preferred Brand R. I promptly blew him out of the water with a sufficiently large bluff about my programming abilities, and we never again had issues about selling BBC micros to central London state schools.Jim Manley wrote: All of this has to be done while Windows-coveting vendors are doing their damnedest to outmaneuver our relatively puny efforts, along with their supporting bureaucrats who benefit by receiving at least fancy computing toys for endless "evaluation", if not outright financial kickbacks. Can you imagine what this process is like for an educator in districts the sizes of those in New York, LA, London, Paris, etc.? No, I didn't think so, but we have to start somewhere. Perhaps now you can begin to understand why I'm not always the happiest camper in the park.
Which is absolutely fantastic. I still find it hard to wrap my head around this: the little Sony factory which is (more or less) up the road from me is the main production facility for all Raspberry Pi models. In fact, better than that, production was moved from China to that little factory up the road; usually things go out to China because it's cheaper.liz wrote:Wales. They're all being made in Pencoed. (Again, we've been pleased to find that the Sony factory we use was more than able to match prices we got from overseas. Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)On a more general point... Has anyone who has a Pi Zero looked to see where it is made? I understand that manufacturing in China is down, so there are probably some pretty hungry factory managers over there who might be really, really interested in making Pi Zeros, even if the margins are razor thin.
£4 versus £28; that's more than a few quid, even when interface cables and hubs are included. It isn't as good or as powerful as the Pi 2 but it is excellent as a cheaper A+ or B+ alternative.jamesh wrote:I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2.
All good points, but the B2 is 6 times (or more with NEON) faster, has twice the RAM, has ethernet, 4 USB's, attached GPIO, CSI, DSI. FOr an extra $24hippy wrote:£4 versus £28; that's more than a few quid, even when interface cables and hubs are included. It isn't as good or as powerful as the Pi 2 but it is excellent as a cheaper A+ or B+ alternative.jamesh wrote:I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2.
The low cost makes the Zero almost disposable, which opens the door to people being willing to risk doing more with it than a more expensive Pi, especially hardware interfacing and hacking. It's also likely bought as a 'second board' so any loss or damage won't affect their main Pi and its use.
It's also cheap enough for everyone to create a mini-cluster or to just 'double their Pi' for loose change prices.
I think the Foundation have perhaps underestimated the appeal and demand for the Pi Zero as they did when the Pi first launched. I would say there's probably a market for two million out there at present, perhaps more. It could again take a long time for supply to catch up with demand.
Absolutely, and I have two more Pi2B's on order (giving me three in total) I'll be able to dedicate one Pi2B to each of my children and still have one for myself.jamesh wrote:All good points, but the B2 is 6 times (or more with NEON) faster, has twice the RAM, has ethernet, 4 USB's, attached GPIO, CSI, DSI. FOr an extra $24hippy wrote:£4 versus £28; that's more than a few quid, even when interface cables and hubs are included. It isn't as good or as powerful as the Pi 2 but it is excellent as a cheaper A+ or B+ alternative.jamesh wrote:I'm finding the high demand quite strange TBH, for only a few extra £ you get a much more powerful device, with less effort to get it going, the pi2.
The low cost makes the Zero almost disposable, which opens the door to people being willing to risk doing more with it than a more expensive Pi, especially hardware interfacing and hacking. It's also likely bought as a 'second board' so any loss or damage won't affect their main Pi and its use.
It's also cheap enough for everyone to create a mini-cluster or to just 'double their Pi' for loose change prices.
I think the Foundation have perhaps underestimated the appeal and demand for the Pi Zero as they did when the Pi first launched. I would say there's probably a market for two million out there at present, perhaps more. It could again take a long time for supply to catch up with demand.
Whichever way you look at it, the Pi2B is really cheap for the performance, and the Zero is really cheap for the performance.
Just 4 years ago, the Pi revolutionised cost/performance with the incredibly cheap Pi1. And it's still incredibly cheap!
+1liz wrote:They're all being made in Pencoed. (Again, we've been pleased to find that the Sony factory we use was more than able to match prices we got from overseas. Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)
It's a shame they can't do better with their TV softwareliz wrote:Really can't overstate how good the Sony folks are.)