User avatar
mikronauts
Posts: 2717
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:28 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:21 pm

Why on earth would anyone have to add (ex-VAT) to a price quoted in US dollars?

Obviously that price is for non-UK, so I doubt any "must show vat-inclusive" laws apply.

Frankly, UK web stores charging VAT-inclusive prices to North American customers is far more "dodgy"
Tieri wrote: Well, in this side of the pond marketing directed to consumers is expected to give the actual price, or at least state clearly the absence of taxes etc. for example "Raspberry Zero new 5$ (ex-VAT) computer!" Putting the information in some separate document is not really 'stating it clearly' now is it?

To my understanding, in marketing directed to consumers, it's even mandatory to do so in European Union trough directives and also mandatory by law in several member states including UK.
http://Mikronauts.com - home of EZasPi, RoboPi, Pi Rtc Dio and Pi Jumper @Mikronauts on Twitter
Advanced Robotics, I/O expansion and prototyping boards for the Raspberry Pi

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10769
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:46 pm

Think we're blurring the distinction between sales and marketing here. When selling a product directly to consumers in the UK it is mandatory to include VAT if your web site is mainly aimed at consumers.

But I gather in the US it's illegal to do that. So what do you do? You buy components in dollars, so you quote a base price in dollars and leave the taxes and shipping up to the actual sites that sell to consumers locally. Makes sense to me. But it doesn't half bring a lot of whingers out of the woodwork. (Thinking of registering 5Whingers.com to compete with 5Ninjas.com :lol: )
I don't know about *illegal*... The problem is (particularly for mail order/on line companies) is that sales tax varies wildly from one state to another. There are states with no sales tax at all. Even within states, there are variations in sales tax. So the problem is, if you "include taxes", you have to know where the purchaser lives, up front. Much, much easier to state the item price and figure the taxes once the order has been built.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10769
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:02 pm

PiGraham wrote: £36 Ex VAT is a bargain. Presumably the "New lower price" is related to the Pi Zero.
Either that, or an effort to clear inventory before a CM2 launch. (One can only hope...)

I checked Allied (US branch of RS). They're still getting $100 for the CM dev kit.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10769
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:04 pm

mikronauts wrote:Why on earth would anyone have to add (ex-VAT) to a price quoted in US dollars?

Obviously that price is for non-UK, so I doubt any "must show vat-inclusive" laws apply.

Frankly, UK web stores charging VAT-inclusive prices to North American customers is far more "dodgy"
I have seen UK sites suddenly drop to "ex-VAT" prices as soon as you show that you're from outside the UK (e.g. US).

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 35811
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 5:04 pm

mikronauts wrote: Frankly, UK web stores charging VAT-inclusive prices to North American customers is far more "dodgy"
You're perfectly entitled as a non-EU, non-resident alien to claim your VAT back from HM Revenue & Customs. I'd guess HMRC don't care because they get extra revenue from the folks who don't bother and that makes up for the likes of Google, Facebook, Starbucks et al. who don't pay their fair share of taxes on their UK derived sales.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

User avatar
mikronauts
Posts: 2717
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:28 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:22 pm

I just might look into that... I got charged ~15 pounds of VAT. Almost 4 Pi 0's worth!

It's not the small amount of money, it is the principle of it - the vendor said they charged this way to be fair to their UK customers.
http://Mikronauts.com - home of EZasPi, RoboPi, Pi Rtc Dio and Pi Jumper @Mikronauts on Twitter
Advanced Robotics, I/O expansion and prototyping boards for the Raspberry Pi

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 35811
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:33 pm

Looks like you're out of luck for internet sales.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/taxfree-shopping
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

ame
Posts: 3172
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:21 am
Location: Korea

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:44 pm

DougieLawson wrote:Looks like you're out of luck for internet sales.
https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/taxfree-shopping
That refers to items you bought in the UK from the internet that you are taking with you when you leave the UK.

gregeric
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 am

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:49 pm

Totally OT, but I think you are out of luck mikronauts. The seller should've zero rated it at the time, & kept evidence of export* from the UK, that's all that is required. They were just too lazy or busy or ignorant to do that.

(*) ie non-EU country

User avatar
mikronauts
Posts: 2717
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:28 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:21 pm

Thanks guys - I pretty much figured I was out of luck.

The reason I mentioned it at all was all the comment way above that quoting $5USD as the Pi's price without including VAT was wrong.

I just figured that it was not "right" of the seller to charge VAT, and thought the "fairness" argument was bogus.
http://Mikronauts.com - home of EZasPi, RoboPi, Pi Rtc Dio and Pi Jumper @Mikronauts on Twitter
Advanced Robotics, I/O expansion and prototyping boards for the Raspberry Pi

User avatar
dliloch
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: cleveland, ohio usa

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:46 pm

is the micro sd card holder different on the pi0? The other pis seem to have a spring to them .. so if you push in the card pops out. On the pi0 it has to be pulled out. If it is different was there a reason for this .. or maybe it is just my specific card that I have observed this.
thanks

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 35811
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 pm

That was my first worry. But it appears to be a non-latching holder. At least that means you can't click it out by accident (which was the reason for the last reboot of my RPi2B when I pulled a USB device from the other end and leant on the SD).
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

BMS Doug
Posts: 3824
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:42 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 pm

dliloch wrote:is the micro sd card holder different on the pi0? The other pis seem to have a spring to them .. so if you push in the card pops out. On the pi0 it has to be pulled out. If it is different was there a reason for this .. or maybe it is just my specific card that I have observed this.
thanks
Yes it's an unsprung (friction hold) card reader, they are probably slightly cheaper and they have a 0% chance of launching your SD card across the room.
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

Massi
Posts: 1691
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 1:52 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:14 pm

so it's like the old SD drive (on the B model, i.e.)
Nothing to be worried about, isn't it? :)

User avatar
dliloch
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:28 pm
Location: cleveland, ohio usa

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:21 pm

The case design will have to take that into account. The magpi case is flush with the card so it can't be easily changed without taking the pi0 out of the case..I was just curious.. Thanks for the prompt answer..

tchiwam
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:01 pm

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:34 pm

Very interesting indeed. We now have a class room of 15 kids coming in their free time during one evening. We tried to keep the costs of the whole kit per kid to about 200$, previously tried to do it for 150$ but the quality of the equipment was very frustrating, keyboards and displays were rather rubbish under some price point.

So now we have 15 Rpi 2 with the foundation's 7" displays. The best combo of good enough quality keyboard and mouse was from adafruit.

So the biggest single cost item right now is the display.

I have only ONE suggestion, why not add a mini HDMI input on the foundation's Display controller ? This would make one the best quality price starter kit ever. Other decent displays are up around 100$ and they don't come close to the Pi's 7".

Yes I did notice one of the tiny connector place next to mini USB on the display board. ???

User avatar
alexeames
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2848
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:57 am
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:58 pm

tchiwam wrote:Very interesting indeed. We now have a class room of 15 kids coming in their free time during one evening. We tried to keep the costs of the whole kit per kid to about 200$, previously tried to do it for 150$ but the quality of the equipment was very frustrating, keyboards and displays were rather rubbish under some price point.

So now we have 15 Rpi 2 with the foundation's 7" displays. The best combo of good enough quality keyboard and mouse was from adafruit.

So the biggest single cost item right now is the display.

I have only ONE suggestion, why not add a mini HDMI input on the foundation's Display controller ? This would make one the best quality price starter kit ever. Other decent displays are up around 100$ and they don't come close to the Pi's 7".

Yes I did notice one of the tiny connector place next to mini USB on the display board. ???
It's a nice idea until you get to the details. Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board and be harder to get through EMC testing. I think it would mess up the whole point of the cheap 7" screen.

I'd love to see an official 10" HD screen though.
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10769
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:41 am

alexeames wrote:
tchiwam wrote:Very interesting indeed. We now have a class room of 15 kids coming in their free time during one evening. We tried to keep the costs of the whole kit per kid to about 200$, previously tried to do it for 150$ but the quality of the equipment was very frustrating, keyboards and displays were rather rubbish under some price point.

So now we have 15 Rpi 2 with the foundation's 7" displays. The best combo of good enough quality keyboard and mouse was from adafruit.

So the biggest single cost item right now is the display.

I have only ONE suggestion, why not add a mini HDMI input on the foundation's Display controller ? This would make one the best quality price starter kit ever. Other decent displays are up around 100$ and they don't come close to the Pi's 7".

Yes I did notice one of the tiny connector place next to mini USB on the display board. ???
It's a nice idea until you get to the details. Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board and be harder to get through EMC testing. I think it would mess up the whole point of the cheap 7" screen.

I'd love to see an official 10" HD screen though.
The alternative would be a different interface board with HDMI *instead* of DSI, rather than in addition.

For the underlying problem (how to equip a room full of systems on the cheap, here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824276278 is one example of a way to get a decent monitor without spending a lot. Indeed, it costs less than the RPF 7" display. (For those that don't want to follow the link, it's a reconditioned 19" 1280x1024 HP monitor that has DVI input for $49.)

PiGraham
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:37 pm
Location: Waterlooville

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:24 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:For the underlying problem (how to equip a room full of systems on the cheap, here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824276278 is one example of a way to get a decent monitor without spending a lot. Indeed, it costs less than the RPF 7" display. (For those that don't want to follow the link, it's a reconditioned 19" 1280x1024 HP monitor that has DVI input for $49.)
AGreed, you get cheaper than that. Look out for "job lots". 19" DVI screens can be found for £12 each.
Here is one example
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Job-Lot-of-10 ... SwlV9WRiVW

I'm sure the same applies for keyboards and mice for about £2.50 each. You may also be able to get this stuff for free from local companies when they upgrade.

emma1997
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:00 pm
Location: New England (not the old one)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:26 pm

alexeames wrote:Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board
Actually there are a lot of small cheap TFT with built-in HDMI. Here's one example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151832683847?

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12124
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:54 pm

emma1997 wrote:
alexeames wrote:Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board
Actually there are a lot of small cheap TFT with built-in HDMI. Here's one example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151832683847?
but then they would not support the DSI connector interface, they also would not be touch screens.

User avatar
Jim Manley
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: SillyCon Valley, California, and Powell, Wyoming, USA, plus The Universe
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:14 pm

mahjongg wrote:
emma1997 wrote:
alexeames wrote:Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board
Actually there are a lot of small cheap TFT with built-in HDMI. Here's one example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151832683847?
but then they would not support the DSI connector interface, they also would not be touch screens.
Can't touchscreen inputs come in via USB or GPIO? Isn't the latter how the Foundation's touchscreen communicates with the Pi?
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

emma1997
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:00 pm
Location: New England (not the old one)

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:22 pm

mahjongg wrote: but then they would not support the DSI connector interface, they also would not be touch screens.
I was responding to Alex comment about HDMI. Also note these are available with touch. IMO better to use the SPI type for small displays anyway. Even with touch they end up costing about 1/3 as much.

User avatar
Jim Manley
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 pm
Location: SillyCon Valley, California, and Powell, Wyoming, USA, plus The Universe
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:23 pm

emma1997 wrote:
alexeames wrote:Adding HDMI would require a larger, more expensive driver board
Actually there are a lot of small cheap TFT with built-in HDMI. Here's one example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151832683847?
Those boards tend to have hard-to-use resistive touchscreens, though, that require so much pressure that they typically come with a stylus.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
"Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire." -- W.B. Yeats
In theory, theory & practice are the same - in practice, they aren't!!!

PhilS
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:12 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Meet Raspberry Pi Zero: the $5 computer

Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:33 am

I have seen on a couple of websites that the Zero is a 'special edition' or 'limited run', is there any truth to this?

Return to “General discussion”