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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:19 am

glossywhite wrote:
PeterO wrote:It's irrelevant !
I have no MS machines, and my employer only just moved to W7. Hopefully I'll never see it.
PeterO

It's irrelevant to you.

In a world where the vast majority of computers are running Microsoft Windows, your comment couldn't make any less sense even if you wanted it to. This is like saying "Cars... pffft! They're irrelevant".

I'll bet that 1% of you have tried it just to say "I've tried it", and of the 1%, I'll wager that you're going into this with pre-conceived social bias >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ial_biases LOOKING for fault, instead of being open minded, well balanced and seeing how things have improved massively.

I've been using the TP builds since day 1, and they've been nothing short of fantastic. Microsoft have admitted their faults and have made amends with the way Windows 10 is being developed, by directly engaging members of the TP membership and by listening to feedback in order to shape design decisions. If you think your favourite OS (other than Windows) is somehow "better" than Windows 10, you are blinded by bias, and/or you just don't want to like Windows, and no amount of discussion will change your mind. Software is a huge variable, and that huge variable is multiplied by infinity due to the endless potential hardware configs and platforms. Linux is JUST as bad on hardware of equal age, and to deny that is just silly.

Build 9926 (came out last Sat) is working well thus far, but I haven't tested exhaustively - the initial build was VERY fast and very stable, and that is a worldwide concencus, not a personal opinion alone, and it can only get better.

Anyway, off I go - too hungry to sit and waffle. Toodle pip :)

Nonsensical.
So if I go home today and install Windows 10 over windows 8.1, will most of my programs work as expected, and will I be able to revert to 8.1 if I want to?
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:22 am

Don't you get it free for a year after it comes out?
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:44 am

mrpi64 wrote:Don't you get it free for a year after it comes out?
Maybe. Nobody knows (until it happens) if that is actually going to happen.

Also, nobody knows whether "free for a year" means:
  1. You have one year from the date when "Windows 10" is released in order to request a Windows 10 CD to be sent to you.

    or.
  2. You get to use Windows 10 for one year, after which you have to pay for it. The point is that MS desperately wants to move to a system of "Windows by subscription", not 'Windows by continuous need to upgrade".
Note, BTW, that the subscription model is actually better for users, since then you don't have MS having to constantly re-invent the wheel and convince the public that they always gotta buy the latest and greatest new thing.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:41 am

How I would wish for option 1...
But I think that option 2 seems most likely.
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

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Jednorozec
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:52 am

I'd be willing to pay 2 cents for a subscription to Windows 10.
The most important leg of a three legged stool is the one that's missing.
It's called thinking. Why don't you try it sometime?

hippy
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Location: UK

Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:11 pm

Microsoft's announcement seems pretty clear on what the deal is -

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about

"We will offer a free upgrade to Windows 10 for qualified new or existing Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 devices that upgrade in the first year!* And even better: once a qualified Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it up to date for the supported lifetime of the device, keeping it more secure, and introducing new features and functionality over time – for no additional charge".

It is better to read the page for full details and footnotes than trying to second-guess what the deal is or making assumptions about what Microsoft will or won't do. It seems a lot of people are choosing to twist what is necessarily specific language into meaning something other than what it says.

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PeterO
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:35 pm

glossywhite wrote:
I've been using the TP builds since day 1, and they've been nothing short of fantastic. Microsoft have admitted their faults and have made amends with the way Windows 10 is being developed, by directly engaging members of the TP membership and by listening to feedback in order to shape design decisions.
Which makes you just as unsuitable as I would be for providing a real user's view of their efforts.
If you think your favourite OS (other than Windows) is somehow "better" than Windows 10, you are blinded by bias, and/or you just don't want to like Windows, and no amount of discussion will change your mind.
Oh the irony! Take a look in the mirror some time and see how biased YOUR opinion is !
Software is a huge variable, and that huge variable is multiplied by infinity due to the endless potential hardware configs and platforms. Linux is JUST as bad on hardware of equal age, and to deny that is just silly.
And with that stupid "infinity" reference your credability goes out of the window.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

BMS Doug
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:39 pm

Jednorozec wrote:I'd be willing to pay 2 cents for a subscription to Windows 10.
Congratulations! Your 2 cents / minute subscription has been added!
Doug.
Building Management Systems Engineer.

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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:45 pm

BMS Doug wrote:
Jednorozec wrote:I'd be willing to pay 2 cents for a subscription to Windows 10.
Congratulations! Your 2 cents / minute subscription has been added!
That'll be $1050.20 a year, please.
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:49 pm

Anyway, I'm upgrading. Looks good enough.
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

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Mandrewpi
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:25 am

I just wish windows would update the app store's they are nearly as bad as the pi store, ok not really, it lacks computer Minecraft pocket edition
A computer is only as smart as its programmer. ;)

I own:
Pi B rev.2, Pi 2 B, Two Pi 3 B, Two Pi 3 b+, Pi 4 2Gb, Pi Zero 1.2, Pi Zero 1.3, Two Pi Zero Ws.
I'm known elsewhere as mandrew1444

blc
Posts: 465
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:55 pm

I'll be upgrading. I'm one of the few weirdos who doesn't actually mind Windows 8.1. Sure Metro sucks on a desktop, but I rarely need to see it and it's not proved to be such an inconvenience that I have to install Classic Start Menu or similar. I still think Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 is actually a worthwhile upgrade, even if it's only for the lower system requirements.

Hopefully Windows 10 will continue the trend of reducing resource & power consumption (or at least keeping it very low) - I'm particularly looking forward to getting a free upgrade to Windows 10 on my new Linx 7 tablet :) (assuming that this will indeed be possible!)

More importantly, Microsoft so far haven't specified whether DirectX 12 will run on Win 7/8/8.1 or whether it'll be Win10 exclusive. If DX12 is a Win10 exclusive then that alone will be reason enough for me to upgrade - DirectX 11.1 support was what finally pushed me into upgrading to Win8. DX12 looks pretty damn swish so far, especially considering that it won't require a GPU upgrade for many people.

I'm also quite intrigued by HoloLens. I was skeptical as to whether it would actually be possible to display a stable rendered image over real-world objects (i.e., turn your head away from the table but the "holo" image stays in the same place), but recently I've seen the augmented reality effects that are possible with a modern smartphone (Sony Xperia). Kinect and the acquisition of Minecraft (via Mojang) is suddenly starting to make a lot of sense - an augmented reality version of Minecraft would have me selling body parts to buy a HoloLens ('cos they aren't gonna be cheap!), and I suspect that I'm not the only one who shares this opinion.

Ravenous
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:07 pm

blc wrote:I'm also quite intrigued by HoloLens. I was skeptical as to whether it would actually be possible to display a stable rendered image over real-world objects (i.e., turn your head away from the table but the "holo" image stays in the same place)...
Yes this is a good point. We all would wear glasses a slightly different distance in front of our eyes, and have different pupil spacings, etc. So I expect the alignment at the edge of the field won't be that good, without a short calibration or setup process, but that's a guess.

Probably not a serious problem, but I expect people will complain.

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mrpi64
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:23 pm

Upgraded! It shoved my 8.1 installation into a folder, so all my software is still there. Just most of them don't run due to missing DLLs. One of them was registered to me as well, so that's going to be hard to get another copy. I like the idea of the start menu becoming small again
Much neater. The side-menu that reveals itself when you mouseover to the bottom-right of the screen - that's gone, and the quick settings have been put into a notifications box,which stores your notifications. Seems that you can't click on any of them, though.
I'm happy to help.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=51794 - List of games that work on the Pi.

Ravenous
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Location: UK

Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:40 pm

So your upgrade didn't take ages and reboot the machine many times, as I think one person said?

poing
Posts: 1131
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:10 pm

mrpi64 wrote:Upgraded! It shoved my 8.1 installation into a folder, so all my software is still there. Just most of them don't run due to missing DLLs. One of them was registered to me as well, so that's going to be hard to get another copy. I like the idea of the start menu becoming small again
Much neater. The side-menu that reveals itself when you mouseover to the bottom-right of the screen - that's gone, and the quick settings have been put into a notifications box,which stores your notifications. Seems that you can't click on any of them, though.
You do realize that Windows 10 is only launched in the second half of 2015 and what's now available is the tech preview where all your keystrokes and whatnot will be sent to Microsoft? They themselves say it's not suitable for a 'production' environment.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:13 pm

... all your keystrokes and whatnot will be sent to Microsoft...
Is there any reason to believe that this will change once the software is officially released?
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

poing
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:20 pm

The want to sell their software to businesses, right? The reason (IMO) Microsoft is fighting a court order to give the US emails from their Irish datacenter is because they will lose EU businesses for their cloud.

hippy
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:42 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:
... all your keystrokes and whatnot will be sent to Microsoft...
Is there any reason to believe that this will change once the software is officially released?
Do you have any reason to believe that it will be same when the software is officially released ?

There seems to be no reason to believe Microsoft will overtly or covertly log interactions with the officially released software and it would not be in their interests to do so. It therefore sounds like concern trolling to me.

Microsoft have been quite open about what they collect -

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... -statement

The contact details for the Chief Privacy Officer of Microsoft are on that page. If anyone has any questions or concerns I am sure they would rather people contact them than make wild, unfounded or unsubstantiated claims about their plans.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:47 pm

Stooge.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

poing
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:07 pm

Joe Schmoe wrote:Stooge.
Care to explain to all us non-native-English speakers what your point is?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Windows 10

Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:32 pm

poing wrote:
Joe Schmoe wrote:Stooge.
Care to explain to all us non-native-English speakers what your point is?
Joe is--effectively--accusing hippy of being the (probably figurative) pay of MS, or otherwise acting in their interest covertly. A slightly less offensive, and possibly more widely known term would have been "shill", although that has somewhat different connotations.

hippy
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Re: Windows 10

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:16 pm

I guess that is the price for refusing to get with the programme of systemic demonisation of Microsoft which some indulge in.

I can't imagine similar unfounded aspersions about the Foundation or Pi being tolerated or a defence of the Pi being addressed in such a way but perhaps, as has been suggested, I am in the wrong forum if I don't find that acceptable.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Windows 10

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:37 pm

Nope, the people whose ideology gets in the way of civil discussion are on the wrong forum.

chaoticlapras
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Re: Windows 10

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:24 pm

New technical preview update works well for me, after sitting watching it update for an hour and a half.

We seem to have some redesigned icons and Cortana (Siri but for Windows) along with it finally working. It used to be absurdly slow (like I was running it on pi specs slow) and annoyed me when I used it occasionally.

Can't say I've noticed any other changes but bugfixes...
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