Byron
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NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:32 pm

Hi all,
I've installed NOOBS on a 16Gig card and it's all up and running nicely. However, I'd really like to be able to hot-swap between different OS's. I'd like to be able to install multiple OS's on the card so that (in use) when I've finished using XBMC I can swap to Raspbian to do a bit of GPIO interfacing, then perhaps swap to RISCOS to do a bit of old school (A3020-style) tinkering.
Is this possible? With my limited knowledge, all I can achieve is a complete wipe-out of all existing data each time I start a new OS. Am I missing something? Would anybody else have a similar query/requirement?
Any help or advice would be very gratefully received.

ghans
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:41 pm

Hot-swapping in the sense of pulling the card out while
running Raspbian ? I guess that can only work if you
use USB root (not that hard) or restrict writes to the SD card
(hard for novices).

ghans
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RaTTuS
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:42 pm

easiest way really is to have a couple or more sd cards
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itimpi
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:47 pm

The only current way to achieve multi-boot in the way described is to make use of BerryBoot. Even this does not allow for non-Linux distributions and only ncludes a limited number of distributions as standard although there are instructions on adding new ones.

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:52 pm

ghans wrote:Hot-swapping in the sense of pulling the card out while
running Raspbian ? I guess that can only work if you
use USB root (not that hard) or restrict writes to the SD card
(hard for novices).

ghans

Not quite what I had in mind... I was imagining a menu that I could return to from one OS and open another OS and work with it, without interfering with what I was doing on the previous OS. Perhaps I'm thinking of some kind of partition that stores different OS's and their related data in their own area of the card?

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:57 pm

itimpi wrote:The only current way to achieve multi-boot in the way described is to make use of BerryBoot. Even this does not allow for non-Linux distributions and only ncludes a limited number of distributions as standard although there are instructions on adding new ones.

...sounds like that's what I'm looking for. I reckon it could be a useful utility. I do possess different SD cards with different OS's on them, but I thought that it'd be really handy to be able to swap around OS's without all the palava of shutting down, removing the card, and booting up a new OS from a new card each time I want to vary my Pi activities.

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Burngate
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:05 pm

Why limit yourself to one Pi?
Several Pis, each with its own SD card, and a KVM switch?

After all, the Pi is one of the cheaper parts in your set-up.

drgeoff
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:49 pm

Byron wrote:
itimpi wrote:The only current way to achieve multi-boot in the way described is to make use of BerryBoot. Even this does not allow for non-Linux distributions and only ncludes a limited number of distributions as standard although there are instructions on adding new ones.

...sounds like that's what I'm looking for. I reckon it could be a useful utility. I do possess different SD cards with different OS's on them, but I thought that it'd be really handy to be able to swap around OS's without all the palava of shutting down, removing the card, and booting up a new OS from a new card each time I want to vary my Pi activities.
If you are looking for something that permits you to start (re)using another OS while leaving another one (or other ones) 'suspended' (meaning not shut down) then I fear you are out of luck. That kind of thing can be done with virtual machines on PCs with enough RAM. But not (yet?) on the RPi.

The only bits of the "palava" (palaver?) that Berryboot will remove is the removing the power, swapping an SD card and powering up again.

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:17 pm

Thanks to all for the responses to my post. I regret that my quest is presently running into the realm of disappointing outcomes. Maybe sometime in the future?
I regret that my knowledge doesn't allow me to sort this one out myself; I'm sure that its possible to solve this problem, but such is life.

Again, many thanks to each who responded.

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:21 pm

Burngate wrote:Why limit yourself to one Pi?
Several Pis, each with its own SD card, and a KVM switch?

After all, the Pi is one of the cheaper parts in your set-up.

I do like your reasoning. But I'm really interested in solving my current OS-swap problem...with more hope than optimism at the moment!

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helpful
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:48 pm

Byron wrote:then perhaps swap to RISCOS to do a bit of old school (A3020-style) tinkering
Well I know the opposite is possible, click on a BootLinux icon from within RISC OS to swap to Linux, but I don't think it is available (yet). You could ask over on the ROOL forum: https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/

fredoll
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:56 pm

BerryBoot is exactly what you're looking for ...

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AndrewS
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:02 pm

See https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/71 and https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... 0c5efd05b5
I believe future versions of NOOBS will allow exactly what you're asking for (but you'd still need to reboot inbetween switching OSes, obviously).

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:00 pm

AndrewS wrote:See https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/71 and https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware ... 0c5efd05b5
I believe future versions of NOOBS will allow exactly what you're asking for (but you'd still need to reboot inbetween switching OSes, obviously).

Sounds promising Andrew. Wouldn't it be über-cool if we could swap OS's without rebooting though? Is it possible? I feel in my bones that it is, but my bones are getting a bit old now and I sometimes wonder if I'm losing touch between what is possible in reality, and what I'd really like to see happening :?:

ghans
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:42 pm

This is more a proof-of-concept , but still interesting in this
context. AFAIK they can't even run Raspbian :

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 63&t=45081

ghans
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AndrewS
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:40 pm

Byron wrote:
AndrewS wrote:(but you'd still need to reboot inbetween switching OSes, obviously).
Wouldn't it be über-cool if we could swap OS's without rebooting though? Is it possible? I feel in my bones that it is, but my bones are getting a bit old now and I sometimes wonder if I'm losing touch between what is possible in reality, and what I'd really like to see happening :?:
Huh? I don't even know how you think that would work? :?
You could use kexec to switch the running Linux kernel (without reloading start.elf) but to all intents and purposes that would appear identical to a reboot to the end-user.
Maybe what you're asking for is virtualization (e.g. like what VirtualBox does on regular PCs) but I don't think the Raspi has enough memory (RAM) for that to be practical.

Byron
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Re: NOOBS, Hot-Swapping

Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:51 pm

AndrewS wrote:
Byron wrote:
AndrewS wrote:(but you'd still need to reboot inbetween switching OSes, obviously).
Wouldn't it be über-cool if we could swap OS's without rebooting though? Is it possible? I feel in my bones that it is, but my bones are getting a bit old now and I sometimes wonder if I'm losing touch between what is possible in reality, and what I'd really like to see happening :?:
Huh? I don't even know how you think that would work? :?
You could use kexec to switch the running Linux kernel (without reloading start.elf) but to all intents and purposes that would appear identical to a reboot to the end-user.
Maybe what you're asking for is virtualization (e.g. like what VirtualBox does on regular PCs) but I don't think the Raspi has enough memory (RAM)
for that to be practical.
It would seem that that's the bottom line Andrew. My knowledge is too flimsy to progress the idea further, but I can't help feeling that someone out there may yet find a way around the problem. For my part, I simply haven't got the necessary grey matter...but thank you for your input.

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