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SN
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:48 pm

Tax/SORN/Insurance rules are an absolute nightmare for the regular law abiding member of the public now - we're all being punished in the attempts to squeeze the criminal fraternity, who after all just need to make up fake plates to defeat the efforts.

My daughter has a car which she only uses during college semesters when she's home - I only insure it and tax it when she's home BUT I now you have to SORN it inbetween FFS -

And as term time doesn't line up with month starts I get done an extra month on tax each break... grrrr...

Private plates are another windup for me - they quote a SIX WEEK turnaround on swapping them on and off cars so its impossible to buy/sell a car quickly if you have private plates... grrrr number 2
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:07 pm

The SORN stuff especially - I forgot to reSORN something and got fined. Just for leaving a car on my driveway. Never went near a road. I really don't see why you cannot just declare a change of state and it stays that way until you change it again. Apart from the money they get from forgetful people. Hold on..... could that be it?????
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:26 pm

.....at least Dick Turpin used to wear a mask while he robbed you....

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:52 pm

JamesH said:


The SORN stuff especially - I forgot to reSORN something and got fined. Just for leaving a car on my driveway. Never went near a road. I really don't see why you cannot just declare a change of state and it stays that way until you change it again. Apart from the money they get from forgetful people. Hold on..... could that be it?????


There is a problem being a law abiding citizen. I get increasingly paranoid the the forces of law and order are out to get me. As you say, SORN is a real PITA but tax, insurance, MOT of car and campervan all adds up. I almost blew a fuse over my car insurance last month. I left renewal on automatic in case I forgot. Of course, my debit card had been renewed at about the same time. The first I knew there was a problem was a snotty letter from the company telling me I wasn't insured. They couldn't do it on my bank details for some reason, even though the details haven't changed in almost 40 years. It has to be done on the card, which gets renewed every couple of years or so.

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:56 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:

 They couldn't do it on my bank details for some reason, even though the details haven't changed in almost 40 years. It has to be done on the card, which gets renewed every couple of years or so.

Ah that wonderful area where "new" technology and outdated business rules butt heads and create needless drama (my favorite is when someone accidentally clicks the box saying you're dead and then won't let you prove that you're not... yet they still can't keep dead people from voting in elections over here... weird)
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:26 pm

JamesH said:


The SORN stuff especially - I forgot to reSORN something and got fined. Just for leaving a car on my driveway. Never went near a road. I really don't see why you cannot just declare a change of state and it stays that way until you change it again. Apart from the money they get from forgetful people. Hold on..... could that be it?????



I believe the SORN rules are changing (don't know when...) so that they're toggled on/off, rather than resetting after 365 days.

The weirdest thing regarding taxing&MOTing motor vehicles that is being discussed is the removal of the requirement for vehicles older than 1960 to be MOT'd  at all, on the grounds that they're all owned by enthusiasts who will keep them up to scratch.

Can you imagine a cheapskate getting a Ford 100e (1953-62) and running it third party only and no road tax or testing required?  Being a cheapskate, no maintenance either.....

Eeek!
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:47 pm

Sounds like you people in the UK have as much if not more trouble with licensing as we (US) do. I pay about $2100 for insurance annually. Probably another $1100 for licenses. In my area smog is only at time of sale. Mustang GT. Corvette. Chevy truck. Me and my wife have excellent driving records, though I did get a warning ,in the mustang, a couple of years ago by a California Highway Patrol.

Mustang 17 to 26 miles per gallon
Corvette 16 to 27.5 miles per gallon. Not real good in town, but rural area so mostly highway!
Truck 14 to 17 miles per gallon.

Both Mustang and Corvette insurance average $2000 per year for most people. With age, married, good driver, longevity (insured with same company for more than 25 years) and lack of tickets it is about $950 a year for each. Throw in auto club membership to cover towing. Mustang was about $300 for license and corvette was $400. Truck is about $400 for insurance and $400 for DMV license and weight fees. Hit a Deer with the corvette this winter and cost me $250 for comp ($4700 damage). An actual wreck would have been $500! Face it cars are just expensive no matter where you are at. So at least $3300 a year before we even drive them. We have tried to get down to just two cars but it snows here in the winter, plus my wife needs to tow the horse trailer. Oh well maybe we will figure it out someday.

And then there is the gas AFTER all of that. lol I would save $6000 a year if I got rid of all of the cars. Almost impossible in such a rural area.
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:50 pm

No smog here in California for 1975 and earlier.
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:10 pm

I calculated that my last Land Rover was costing me about £1000 a month before I got rid of it, for another one. I have a geniune photo of the mpg on the trip computer once showing 4.1 mpg and it typically ran at 21mpg (uk gallons) most of the time. Lovely cars though. . .
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Was thinking about the petrol thing this evening (we have half a tank, and need to visit my parents over the weekend); what if it was actually a strategic bit of thinking from the government, meant to cause shortages at a time when the petrol companies can bump production, and in so doing prevent a strike?

I may be overthinking this.
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:35 pm

liz : I think it was Heisenberg who said (roughly) to a student

"Your theory is outrageous, but sadly not outrageous enough to be true"

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:43 pm

Strange people haven't noticed the price rise of 8p a litre this week?
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:44 pm

I"ve seen written thats is an attempt by the govt to cause increased output/trade in some way to give the uk financials a kick up the arse in 2012Q1
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:23 pm

Lob0426 said:

And then there is the gas AFTER all of that. lol I would save $6000 a year if I got rid of all of the cars. Almost impossible in such a rural area.
Well you'd save a lot more over in the UK - petrol (gas) is about twice the price you're paying - and that was before the recent increases

You say your wife has a horse box - maybe she could do without the motor, and let the horses pull it themselves?

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:08 am

Jongoleur said:


JamesH said:


The SORN stuff especially - I forgot to reSORN something and got fined. Just for leaving a car on my driveway. Never went near a road. I really don't see why you cannot just declare a change of state and it stays that way until you change it again. Apart from the money they get from forgetful people. Hold on..... could that be it?????


I believe the SORN rules are changing (don't know when...) so that they're toggled on/off, rather than resetting after 365 days.

The weirdest thing regarding taxing&MOTing motor vehicles that is being discussed is the removal of the requirement for vehicles older than 1960 to be MOT'd  at all, on the grounds that they're all owned by enthusiasts who will keep them up to scratch.

Can you imagine a cheapskate getting a Ford 100e (1953-62) and running it third party only and no road tax or testing required?  Being a cheapskate, no maintenance either.....

Eeek!


I doubt a cheapskate could afford a car from that era - they are all worth a lot of money now. I have a garage full of engine parts from Mk1 and MK2 Escorts - even just the parts are worth quite a bit. Got a couple of 1600 Xflows complete, one from a Formula Ford race car, plus about 4 1300's for parts for the car in avatar.
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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:34 am

This fuel furore. I've yet to see hard figures. Such as: on average, nationally, how much fuel is in storage in vehicle fuel tanks? How much in forecourt tanks? How much in transit in tankers? and how much in refinery storage? And how do those figures compare to daily usage?
Given that a tanker-driver strike looks likely, should the government just let it happen and have the panic then, or forewarn the populace now, and have the panic-buying now while there's plenty of fuel in the pipeline?

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:16 pm

Burngate said:


This fuel furore. I've yet to see hard figures. Such as: on average, nationally, how much fuel is in storage in vehicle fuel tanks? How much in forecourt tanks? How much in transit in tankers? and how much in refinery storage? And how do those figures compare to daily usage?


This has some of the information: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17570627

It looks as if the answer is 14 days.

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:29 pm

I think someone quoted a statistic where people generally fill up when they get down the 1/3 of a tank. The government kept saying that people would be sensible to refill at 2/3 of a tank. this means that, at the very least, people were doubling their visits. Anecdotal evidence was that many were queueing up after every trip they made, "just in case". Add to that the strong suggestion that motorists should fill up every receptacle they could lay their hands on, just adds to a self prophesying shortage, even though deliveries have been continuous. The actions of the stupid masses have not helped.

The government have been completely inept over this but are unable to man up and admit it.

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:26 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


The government have been completely inept over this but are unable to man up and admit it.


Personally I think the second Burngate conjecture is correct and the government strategy has worked out pretty successfully. Everyone is now alerted to the possibility of a strike and has the opportunity of changing their fuel buying strategy while there is still an adequate supply. And pressure has been brought to bear on the parties to the dispute to exhaust ACAS procedures before actually calling a strike. Even the media have played their part in headlining the dangers of storing/handling petrol in the house.

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:31 pm

If you consider reducing the country to blind panic a successful strategy then I agree they have been quite successful.

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Re: Petrol Nonsense

Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:27 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


If you consider reducing the country to blind panic


Not much sign of it in these parts (East Cambs), I'm pleased to say - pretty much business as usual AFAICS. Parliament in recess now and not too much other news around so, unsurprisingly, the media go totally OTT. Yes I think there was a day's media-inspired difficulties (Wednesday was it?) in the more impressionable areas but hasn't that largely resolved now? And - fortunately - a lot of the country is more phlegmatic.

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