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grumpyoldgit
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:48 am

I've been following the iPad launch with a rising sense of astonishment. These things cost £400ish, which is fine if you want that sort of thing. In my day, with computer equipment, a company might expect to replace their more essential computers every five years or so. Computers in the back room would probably be older; often consisting of recycled equipment from elsewhere. In the home a computer is a major item of expenditure so unless the thing blew up, you might expect to replace it every five years or so.

Apple have brought out the three generations each March for the last three years. I had assumed that with such a short timespan customers buying the iPad3 would generally be new as the iPad and iPad2 would still be recent purchases and be working perfectly fine. In reading through comments and blogs, however,  it appears that  getting a new iPad is considered to be an annual event. As soon as the new model is announced the old model is considered to be rubbish and is consigned to the cupboard under the stairs. How can this be? I gather that hundreds of thousands have already been sold and it has only been out a few days. I gather the same applies to the iPhone. How have we reached a stage that people have so much money that expensive electrical equipment is considered to have a one year life?

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Jongoleur
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:54 am

You've forgotten to factor in the "Ooooohhhh  SHINY!!!" Magpie mentality.



Barnum and Thomas Tusser had the handle on modern merchandising......
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

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walney
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:58 am

It's actually about 3 million.

I suspect that it's driven by the same expectation that you'll get a brand new phone every 2 years if you're on contract.

By and large, though, I don't think that they do languish in a cupboard - they seem to get passed on to family members, or else migrate for the winter to ebay. (A first gen 16GB Wi-Fi iPad still commands about £150 - £180, so it goes a reasonable way to subsidising the 'new toy'.)

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:25 am

I can see that but I don't recall kids ever wanting a new bike every year, or a new train set or whatever. You got your new toy and then next year you wanted something else. A while back I took my massive 32" CRT based TV to the skip as the colour guns had gone and I was fed up having to get up several times each evening, walk across to the TV and hit it or power it up and down a few times.  The thing was so heavy I needed a friend to help me get it in and out of the car at the recycling centre. What struck me there though was the quality of the electrical items that had been skipped. My TV looked to be one of the older ones as there were plenty of more recent offerings. In addition there were PCs and screens and all sorts of decent looking equipment. While I am sure that some of it must have been broken it was obvious that many people just wanted the new shiny, shiny. A bit galling in that most of the computer equipment looked newer than mine!

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walney
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:39 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


...A bit galling in that most of the computer equipment looked newer than mine!



You should have 'recycled' some of it then

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:43 am

walney said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


...A bit galling in that most of the computer equipment looked newer than mine!


You should have 'recycled' some of it then


That was on my mind but they threaten you with prosecution if you you so much as put a paper-clip in your pocked. I did get a gas cylinder once by slipping one of the staff a couple of quid but they have tightened up now.

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Burngate
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:31 am

I've often wondered how much the staff make 'recycling' the stuff that you're not allowed to take.

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psergiu
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:39 pm

Well i got an iPad 1 and i'm waiting for the new iPad to arrive.

My dad would love to have the iPad 1 as he says his iPhone 2G's screen has become too small for aiming those birds with the slingshot and planting those zombie-shooting flowers.

I am active in the Apple comunity here and i never heard of an unused iPad - it's either being sold or used by someone else from the family.

Also most of the iPad 2 owners won't upgrade to the new one as the performance difference is almost zero - the new one has the same CPU, the faster graphics are just enough to have the same frame rate on the higher resolution and the extra RAM will mostly be used for caching the larger bitmaps. And LTE is US-only.

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crundy
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:41 pm

I think I'll wait until the new archos comes out. OK the screen isn't as good, but the processor is faster, same memory, 250G hard drive + all the storage I want via cards, and I can hack it up all I like.

Andre_P
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:49 pm

Yes I've been surprised by how many people I know who seem to be ugrading their sequence of iPads.

I'll admit I'm typing this on a Mac Book Pro. But it's over 5 years old has a couple of dents but still is going strong and I don't want to 'upgrade' because it still does the job, I can log into my server if I want to do something even gruntier than this machine can handle. The only other reason for using the server is to allow some software that is highly unlikely to be released for Mac OSX. ***

Apple IMHO has effectively turned 'tech' into a 'fashion' item and those who only see as deep as the casing will suddenly think 'ooh I'm out of date must upgrade'.

*** I did start off using a VM to run stuff but it didn't quite have enough muscle to do that and do the other stuff I wanted to do at the same time.

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crundy
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:08 pm

Andre_P said:


those who only see as deep as the casing will suddenly think 'ooh I'm out of date must upgrade'.


Damn! I can't find the Mitchell & Webb skit with the lettuce upgrade!

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nick.mccloud
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:22 pm

Armstrong & Miller:


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nick.mccloud
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:28 pm

Mitchell & Webb:


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crundy
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:34 pm

That would be why I couldn't find it :-\

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abishur
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:36 pm

It helps to remember that for many (not all, just many) of the people getting apple products it's a status symbol.  As with all things that boil down to a status symbol it doesn't matter if you have anything by said brand, you have to have the *latest* of said brand.  Once a fancier version is released by the brand you cease to have a status symbol and just have a tablet device or a phone or whatever it is that you're using to prove your status.
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

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psergiu
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:41 pm

Andre_P said:


Apple IMHO has effectively turned 'tech' into a 'fashion' item and those who only see as deep as the casing will suddenly think 'ooh I'm out of date must upgrade'.


Could be ... in countries where people can afford this Here most of the buyers of Apple devices see them as an investment and expect to use them for many years as the price of Apple hardware is indeed high, but simmilar to other high-end brand offerings - only with Apple you're sure you won't get a "Made for Eastern Europe" model that will fail in about a year.

Andre_P
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:29 pm

psergiu : to be fair the only stuff that I have bought that was made in Eastern Europe or as near as you can get was my old Zenit 12XP camera. It finally gave up the ghost after about 15 years. It went everywhere with me, while it was heavy it had a brass body that could be dropped on rocks and just keep going. Apparently it had the most stable shutter timing when compared to other more 'modern' SLRs.

I do agree, Apple kit does tend to keep going (as I say this Mac is about 5 years old and has effectively gone round the world), however somehow Apple has turned people away from seeing the 'inner' quality and made people just look at some kind of shallow level perspective.

The interesting thing though, the thing that finally made me buy one was that it natively came with emacs .

TheEponymousBob
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Re: iPad

Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:42 pm

I have upgraded my first generation iPad for the new one, as the 256MB RAM in the first generation device was becoming a real limitation. Of course when the first generation was released, nobody—not even Apple—was predicting them to do so well. I think aspects of it still felt "experimental".

I certainly wouldn"t have upgraded from the iPad 2, and I don"t believe those who view them as an annual upgrade make up anything like a majority—they make up for that by being particularly vocal about it. But as others have noted, many will trade-in older models, relying on the unusually buoyant resale value of iOS devices.

My own first gen is on its way to th"Mother-in-law.

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psergiu
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Re: iPad

Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:38 am

Andre_P said:


psergiu : to be fair the only stuff that I have bought that was made in Eastern Europe or as near as you can get


Made FOR Eastern Europe. For "emerging markets"

Different product codes than the ones sold in the West.

For the same model of PC laptop getting rave reviews in the West, the Eastern Europe version will suck - thermal shutdowns if you use-it at 100% for more that 10 minutes, subpar components failing faster, low quality LCD screens.

Thank God Apple & RaspberryPi products are and will be produced with the same quality for everyone.

john_wage
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Re: iPad

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:06 am

psergiu said:


Different product codes than the ones sold in the West.

For the same model of PC laptop getting rave reviews in the West, the Eastern Europe version will suck - thermal shutdowns if you use-it at 100% for more that 10 minutes, subpar components failing faster, low quality LCD screens.


Yeah but some electronic equipment HAS to be manufactured with specific climates in mind. Air temperature and relative humidity levels on some of the 'extreme' places on earth can fluctuate by a factor of many-folds. (Yeah I just made up a word, DEAL WITH IT!)

Not saying that your statement is untrue, just saying that in some cases there are legit reasons for using slower(sturdier) components.

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psergiu
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Re: iPad

Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:01 pm

Nope. The climate here is the same as in Germany, Italy, France, UK & the continental United States.

I did not beleived-it myself until i saw two HP laptops side by side. Same model. One was sold here, the other belonged to someone from UK. Move 30 degrees to left and right, the colours on the LCD of the UK one were okay, on the other one they were shifting towards bue/green or magenta. The plastics on the "for emerging markets" one were shiny-er - with a "cheap chinese toy" look. Battery life on the UK one was longer (both were about the same age) and it booted and ran faster than the other one. Same model, same CPU speed, only a few of the letters at the end of the model were different.

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hayesey
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Re: iPad

Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:46 pm

I know several people who will go out and buy the latest Apple product as soon as it is released.  They've had iPad, iPad2 and now iPad3.  And even the same with Macbooks.

But then I also know people who do similar things with cars and are obsessed with having to have a brand new car as often as possible and lose £1000s every year in depreciation.

Madness to me!

I have an iPad 1 and it still does it's job for the main part.  Apps are getting more power hungry though and it doesn't seem as slick as it once did.

It'll be getting replaced with an Android ICS tablet at some point as it's just too locked down for my liking.  Just can't decide what right now.  I'm in no rush. might wait and see what comes out for the Christmas 2012 season.

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Montekuri
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Re: iPad

Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:18 pm

It remembers me the "Story of Stuff" (something related to planned obsolescence):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....LBE5QAYXp8

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Jessie
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Re: iPad

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:08 am

My wife and I have a first gen iPad.  We didn't buy it until the second one came out and we could get it for $100 less.  I have had a couple iPhones but generally speaking I give them to people that I know that enjoy playing games on them when I upgrade.  I think I will probably fix the old iPad to the back seat headrest somewhere for my daughter to watch movies on once I upgrade to something better.

I suppose many people think apple products are a status symbol, but I just like how well the iOS devices work.  Overpriced yes, but I also like the integration.  We have an iPad, two iPhone 4, and an Apple TV version 3 and the seamless integration between the four devices and iTunes on our two Windows PCs is nice.  Once I jailbreak the Apple TV and put XBMC on it so it can see my DLNA server it will serve us even better.

I wouldn't get in line for their products though, or pay higher than retail.  It pisses me off enough when I break a phone and have to make an appointment with "the genius bar."  What kind of pompous BS is that?  First of all, there are no geniuses at the genius bar only ugly hipsters and beatnecks.  And second why do I need an appointment to get my product that I overpaid for replaced?

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Burngate
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Re: iPad

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:27 am

Jessie said:

It pisses me off enough when I break a phone and have to make an appointment with "the genius bar."  What kind of pompous BS is that?  First of all, there are no geniuses at the genius bar only ugly hipsters and beatnecks.  And second why do I need an appointment to get my product that I overpaid for replaced?

You have to remember that you and I are not normal.

My job was to fix things that other people had broken. I liked it when a normal person broke something - they could have fixed it themselves if they knew enough. What I didn't like was the clever customers - they quite often knew more than me, so if it was easy they would already have fixed it. What they had, therefore, was a PITA to fix.

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