Heater
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:26 pm

I do believe 4sysman is referring to the ESXi for ARM which was shown as a prototype some months ago. https://vinfrastructure.it/2018/11/vmwa ... pberry-pi/

All sounds premature to me.

Anyone like to tell me why we might need it? For IoT?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:03 am

mahjongg wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:57 pm
You want a completely new and more capable SoC? fine, work is done on it, it will take a year or so, and nobody (who is telling) now knows how much RAM it will support, maybe 2GB, but I guess not much more...... memory is expensive, and the prices of RPI's are mostly fixed for the current audiences (kids), I don't believe it will ever be easy to just stick more memory in it, as its memory won't be of the sticking-in-kind (memory connectors are expensive too).
I think one needs to distinguish between how much memory the SoC can address (and that will--in part--depend on how many address lines it has and how they're used) and how much it is practical (for space as well as economic reasons) to actually install.

I could see having an SoC that could address, say, 4GB, but only putting 1GB on the board because more either can't be obtained in a requisite package size or just plain costs too much. So long as the SoC can actually address it, that would leave open the option of a future upgrade, just as happened with the Pi1 B's and the A+...and could yet happen to the Pi3A+.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:23 am

Simply not going to happen. You're far better off looking at x86 - pick up an slightly older HP Microserver if you're that concerned on cost.
ARM SBCs rarely have socketed memory, and requiring 32GB of RAM is such a niche requirement that it becomes uneconomical to keep it as an extra SKU.
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:31 am

hippy wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:57 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:16 pm
I think the most RAM in a Pi style is 4GB
The only limitation on RAM on any device comes from how things are implemented. There may however be limitations imposed to make things easier, such as making maximum address space the same as register width to avoid memory mapping and paging and to simplify a processor's ISA.

In that respect, a 32-bit register size with a 32-bit addressing limit in the ISA would usually impose a maximum of 4GB direct linear addressing.

One would have to jump through some hoops to have more. And, when that hoop-jumping isn't intrinsically provided for, by the SoC or any OS it runs, it has costs which are often more detrimental than advantageous.

So, while there isn't any limit, it can usually be considered there is. While a Pi could address more than 4GB with the current SoC, by supporting memory mapping externally to the SoC, it wouldn't make sense to do so.

And that's seems to be the only way one could go over 1GB with the current Pi SoC.
I think you've read that out of context.

In the shops the only Pi 'style' I can think of max out at 4GB.
Is that better..
And then the two Pi style SBCs with 4GB.

Still I think the OP actually need to look at whatever that virtual server thing can actually run on.
It certainly not targeted at Pi style SBCs

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:08 am

I'm more interested in the use case, since the Pi( or any other SBC) in unable to meet the specs.

Seems probable that the wrong approach is being used, and there may well be a better way of acheiving the goals.
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:55 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:08 am
I'm more interested in the use case, since the Pi( or any other SBC) in unable to meet the specs.

Seems probable that the wrong approach is being used, and there may well be a better way of acheiving the goals.
Uses for SBCs with larger amounts of RAM and fast GPUs definitely exist in applications involving deep-learning robotics and autonomous vehicles. A closer match to the specifications asked for in the original post would be the Jetson AGX which has 16GB RAM.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 pm

ejolson wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:55 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:08 am
I'm more interested in the use case, since the Pi( or any other SBC) in unable to meet the specs.

Seems probable that the wrong approach is being used, and there may well be a better way of acheiving the goals.
Uses for SBCs with larger amounts of RAM and fast GPUs definitely exist in applications involving deep-learning robotics and autonomous vehicles. A closer match to the specifications asked for in the original post would be the Jetson AGX which has 16GB RAM.
Somehow...I don't think he's prepared to pay $1400.

Andyroo

Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Do not buy if trying - just rent at $280 per month :shock: https://www.mininodes.com/hosted-arm-servers/

I’ll stick to Intel for now :oops:

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:55 am

Heater wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:53 pm
4sysman,

I'm curious, what is it you want to do involving IoT and a Pi like machine that could possibly need more than 1GB of RAM.

I still don't understand what ESXi might be useful for though.
Ok... ;) , I will share with you part of my project ! :)
1st. Why ESXi? Because I can do OS Virtualization.
2nd. Why OS Virtualization? Because I can run in same time different OS on same board.
3rd. Why run in same board multiple OS? I'm looking to run 4 AI same time same board ;)
-1st. AI from Google 'Google'
-2nd. AI from Amazon 'Alexa'
-3rd. AI from Apple 'Siri'
-4th. AI from Microsoft 'Cortana'
Sorry I can't share more info... Have Fun... Heater :)
Sharing is Caring :P

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:27 am

4sysman,

Thanks for the explanation.

Sounds like a bat shit crazy idea. But hey, I'm in no position to judge that :)
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:51 am

mahjongg wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:57 pm
As this is going off in-to total fantasy directions, im moving this to Cloud Cuckoo land (actually to off-topic).

Have fun with your totally unrealistic idea's.

But remember that raspberry PI's exist by virtue of the fact that a SoC's existed which for a reasonable price could do all what an RPI can do (and nothing more). more memory than 1GB isn't possible because of the FACT that the SoC doesn't support it, end of story.....

You want a completely new and more capable SoC? fine, work is done on it, it will take a year or so, and nobody (who is telling) now knows how much RAM it will support, maybe 2GB, but I guess not much more...... memory is expensive, and the prices of RPI's are mostly fixed for the current audiences (kids), I don't believe it will ever be easy to just stick more memory in it, as its memory won't be of the sticking-in-kind (memory connectors are expensive too).
You right, the prices of RPI's are mostly fixed for the current audiences (kids), My son and I have a lot of fun build IoT on RPi and I Want To Say Thank You! 8-). I just want to bring for kids audiences cool things like Virtualization & AI. We need to thinking how bring RAM price down! :idea: Maybe guys from Crucial can Help us?
Sharing is Caring :P

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:30 am

Heater wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:27 am
4sysman,

Thanks for the explanation.

Sounds like a bat shit crazy idea. But hey, I'm in no position to judge that :)
:lol: You right, it is Bad Shit Crazy Idea (B.S.C.I) but not more Crazy Idea then go to Mars Planet. We need to have right tools to do something ;)
Sharing is Caring :P

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:56 am

4sysman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:10 am
Pay $1400 :o For this **** :lol: I will not pay more than 140$
$140 is about the cost of 4 Pis. I wouldn't run them all on the same board.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 am

Just get four Pi or more and Cluster them?
Think of alternative methods to use them together.

Cortana and Alexa will be one at some point (probably, the way they are going)

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:49 am

bensimmo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 am
Just get four Pi or more and Cluster them?
Think of alternative methods to use them together.

Cortana and Alexa will be one at some point (probably, the way they are going)
How mahjongg mention... the current audiences is kids, Clustering is Cool but will complicate my project. I like to keep simple, using K.I.S.S. principal ( K.I.S.S. principle :lol: ). I will doing Clustering in next my project. Our major problem is expensive RAM price :(. Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
Sharing is Caring :P

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:05 pm

Any idea how bring RAM price down ?


Buy lots of it.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:07 pm

3rd. Why run in same board multiple OS? I'm looking to run 4 AI same time same board ;)
-1st. AI from Google 'Google'
-2nd. AI from Amazon 'Alexa'
-3rd. AI from Apple 'Siri'
-4th. AI from Microsoft 'Cortana'
You are mentioning "Assistants", the respective "AI"s are running in each company cloud.
You are not going to run any real "AI" of this type directly on the Pi CPU regardless of RAM size.

Have you played with the Google Assistant on the Pi so you know what you are talking about ?
Does Siri work outside of any Apple device ?
Does Cortana work outside of any Win10 device ?
All of these kind of require voice input, do you plan to have 4 mics or do you expect to send the same sound to all of them ?

I would say you have more fundamental problems than RAM prices.. and you are pretty far off KISS to start with.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm

4sysman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:49 am
bensimmo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 am
Just get four Pi or more and Cluster them?
Think of alternative methods to use them together.

Cortana and Alexa will be one at some point (probably, the way they are going)
How mahjongg mention... the current audiences is kids, Clustering is Cool but will complicate my project. I like to keep simple, using K.I.S.S. principal ( K.I.S.S. principle :lol: ). I will doing Clustering in next my project. Our major problem is expensive RAM price :(. Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
Why is your major problem the price of RAM ? You can get 1Gbyte with extras for about $35, the extras include ethernet, USB, GPIO, and lots of fun running a "personal" computer.
IIRC the initial price of a 16KByte RAM expansion for the TRS-80 was (in Germany) DM 999. (~ €500).
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:17 pm

4sysman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:49 am
bensimmo wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:31 am
Just get four Pi or more and Cluster them?
Think of alternative methods to use them together.

Cortana and Alexa will be one at some point (probably, the way they are going)
How mahjongg mention... the current audiences is kids, Clustering is Cool but will complicate my project. I like to keep simple, using K.I.S.S. principal ( K.I.S.S. principle :lol: ). I will doing Clustering in next my project. Our major problem is expensive RAM price :(. Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
The Pi range cannot address more than 1GB of RAM, so RAM price (which we have no control over) is fairly irrelevent.

There is no way an individual can bring down RAM prices! Its a bit like asking Ford to drop the price of their cars a lot, just for you.

For your purposes, multiple Pi's will be cheaper than buying a machine that does everything. That's not clustering, that just having a machine for each purpose, possibly networked together. That is KISS. Virtualisation isn't.
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:27 pm

topguy wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:07 pm
3rd. Why run in same board multiple OS? I'm looking to run 4 AI same time same board ;)
-1st. AI from Google 'Google'
-2nd. AI from Amazon 'Alexa'
-3rd. AI from Apple 'Siri'
-4th. AI from Microsoft 'Cortana'
You are mentioning "Assistants", the respective "AI"s are running in each company cloud.
You are not going to run any real "AI" of this type directly on the Pi CPU regardless of RAM size.

Have you played with the Google Assistant on the Pi so you know what you are talking about ?
Does Siri work outside of any Apple device ?
Does Cortana work outside of any Win10 device ?
All of these kind of require voice input, do you plan to have 4 mics or do you expect to send the same sound to all of them ?

I would say you have more fundamental problems than RAM prices.. and you are pretty far off KISS to start with.
topguy,
Please learn more about virtualization..., You will be impress..., Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
Sharing is Caring :P

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm

I was there at VMWorld 2018 in Las Vegas when they demonstrated ESXi running on a Raspberry Pi.

At the time they stated that this wasn't done because the Raspberry Pi was a realistic platform to run a hypervisor, but because if they could get it running on a Pi then any ARM based board becomes a possibility and that was what the engineers had to hand at the time. The reality being that an ARM board with more RAM and a better storage stack would be required in a real world use-case.

So to all the naysayers, yes ESXi on RPi is a thing, I've seen it.
But it was/is a prototype, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be getting their hands on it any time soon.
It isn't seen as a something that would ever run more than one, maybe two at a push VMs. It is seen more as a possibility of introducing redundancy to edge devices that are more often than not single points of failure in a wider system or system-of-systems. I for one would like something like this to host SAN arbiters, because they are a pain in the derriere for us.
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:49 pm

Idea/system not matching with your preferred board (RPi)

better source another board that can.

If you cannot pay $1400 for a good board that matches your requirements, better scrap the idea. (or make your own, but it will be more expensive than off-the-shelf readily-available boards)

.... your insistence is futile....
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Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:52 pm

4sysman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:27 pm
topguy,
Please learn more about virtualization..., You will be impress..., Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
I think it is time for you to stop writing this nonsense, you think you know a lot but that is just an illusion.

Virtualization is not just RAM, it is much broader subject that involves virtual infrastructure, storage, networking, management, monitoring and reporting, etc.

In the past I used a (private) 4 Core ESXi system with 16GB RAM, 2TB disk space, running a complete data centre with dedicated router, dhcp, dns, firewall, mail server, virtualized NAS storage, Windows Active Directory, Windows clients and servers, Linux clients as a testing and development environment. I had to use my own system because my colleagues would not let me use one of the production ESXi servers with 256GB RAM, 32 Cores, in the VMWare farm.
Last edited by Ernst on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:58 pm

Please learn more about virtualization..., You will be impress...,
I know enough about virtualisation that I will still consider it impossible to run a usable version of Windows 10 with Cortana on any Pi regardless of RAM size. But maybe you have a different OS in mind.
Any idea how bring RAM price down ?
Buy older/slower RAM on the second hand market.

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Re: Order a special request Raspberry Pi :?:

Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:20 pm

4sysman wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:30 am
:lol: You right, it is Bad Shit Crazy Idea (B.S.C.I) but not more Crazy Idea then go to Mars Planet. We need to have right tools to do something ;)
And the Pi isn't the right tool for the job, nor is the Pi the right device to create the right tool around. You will, as others have suggested, need to look elsewhere.

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