User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:17 pm

Following on from this closed thread: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=142534
Imagine if big pharmaceutical companies did the same thing with open source drugs... :?:

fruit-uk
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:19 pm
Location: Suffolk, UK

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:35 pm

It would be a much better place if posters would supply a summary of the contents of a linked page instead of just the link
I've been caught too many times with similar posts and cannot be bothered to waste my time any more by clicking on them

User avatar
EimGhey
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:39 pm

morphy_richards wrote:Following on from this closed thread: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=142534
Imagine if big pharmaceutical companies did the same thing with open source drugs... :?:
Yiss the fact is allowing the mentally ill to create the drugs to help them would be excellent... As mentally ill man I can think of several ways my treatment could be improved if the shrink would just listen to me!

Heater
Posts: 11108
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:58 pm

morphy_richards,

I can't work it out. What actually is your point here?

User avatar
EimGhey
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:14 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:05 pm

Heater wrote:morphy_richards,

I can't work it out. What actually is your point here?
Well Ithink he is talking about sick of intellect being able to tailor engineer their drugs... And frankly a creepy student is looking at me...

User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:22 pm

Heater wrote:morphy_richards,

I can't work it out. What actually is your point here?
I'm talking about cooperation.
Not just open sourcing some of your own products but engineering once locked down products to work with whole other ecosystems.
Imagine that with pharmaceuticals... Perhaps a way for those drugs too expensive to treat the millions of AIDS victims in Africa. Perhaps a collaboration to allow immunising all children against meningitis.. Expensive cancer drugs made more available ...
Last edited by morphy_richards on Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:44 pm

morphy_richards wrote:Following on from this closed thread:
That's usually a mistake.

User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:53 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: That's usually a mistake.
I thought it was a shame. Opportunity for interesting discussion that never had a chance. I can understand the distrust of MS but don't blame the sins of the father on solar radiation, or something like that. :?

Heater
Posts: 11108
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:54 pm

I have no idea.

The story I hear from the pharmaceutical industry is that they need tons of money to finance research into new medications. Perhaps fair enough, so far. In order get that tons of money they need to make the medications expensive and their ingredients/means of production secret. Poor people, who can not afford the medications, can just suffer and die.

The end result of this is that knowledge that can be helpful to the human race is locked up in the hands of those who can profit from it.

Kind of, sort of, like the closed source software business model. Or the genetically modified foods model.

I hope one day we humans can fix this.

But I don't hold out much hope. Such knowledge hoarding, rent seeking, behaviour has been going on forever. Think of the Venetian glass makers at the time of Galileo inventing the telescope. Or the instrument makers cartel at the time of James Watt.

User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:55 pm

... Or Pythagoras killing any students who divulged his secrets

Heater
Posts: 11108
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:00 pm

morphy_richards,
... Or Pythagoras killing any students who divulged his secrets
Yeah, those Venetian glass makers were not allowed to leave the island on which they worked in case the secret got out.

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4249
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:02 pm

You mean something like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35933692
GlaxoSmithKline to 'drop patents in poor countries for better drug access'

Heater
Posts: 11108
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:05 pm

Sounds like a good move.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:21 pm

morphy_richards wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: That's usually a mistake.
I thought it was a shame. Opportunity for interesting discussion that never had a chance. I can understand the distrust of MS but don't blame the sins of the father on solar radiation, or something like that. :?
Microsoft is researching and manufacturing pharmaceuticals now? News to me.

User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:34 pm

There's an open source drugs community that develops new drugs that's very similar to OS software. Difference is it needs a physical form, which causes problems.

User avatar
morphy_richards
Posts: 1603
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:26 pm
Location: Epping Forest
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:48 pm

... And the stakes are higher if it's buggy.

stderr
Posts: 2178
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:02 pm

morphy_richards wrote:Would the world be a better place?
I thought you were going to say, if the world was a two dimensional hologram on the event horizon of a Raspberry Pi. I think it would be a better place except I'd hate to not be able to delete any information off its sdcard.

User avatar
GTR2Fan
Posts: 1601
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:20 pm
Location: South East UK

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:02 pm

morphy_richards wrote:... And the stakes are higher if it's buggy.
+1. Drugs testing with insects is nowhere near as good a model of their effects on a human being as testing with rodents.
Pi2B Mini-PC/Media Centre: ARM=1GHz (+3), Core=500MHz, v3d=500MHz, h264=333MHz, RAM=DDR2-1200 (+6/+4/+4+schmoo). Sandisk Ultra HC-I 32GB microSD card on '50=100' OCed slot (42MB/s read) running Raspbian/KODI16, Seagate 3.5" 1.5TB HDD mass storage.

mikerr
Posts: 2743
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:59 pm

The forum would be a better place if people used proper subject lines. Just sayin' :D
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:52 pm

morphy_richards wrote:... And the stakes are higher if it's buggy.
Software can have that sort of problem, too. While not OSS, there was a radiation therapy machine that could all to easily be set wrong that killed at least a couple of people.

Then there is avionics software, like that in an early Airbus crash that couldn't really handle a low, slow pass and climb out. Software overrode pilot on the grounds that he *must* be intending to land (he wasn't).

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4249
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:00 am

One of the famous "pilot error" crashes occurred because the co-pilot lost it and continued to demand maximum climb, even though the other stick was demanding exactly the opposite. The fly-by-wire system gave no indication that it was receiving contradictory inputs and probably just averaged them. In my opinion, that's a bug.


On the other hand, safe software is dangerous too. It might be the same crash W. H. Heydt mentions where the cause of the crash was the pilot's trust in the anti-stall software causing him to simply pull back hard on the stick at the end of a low pass. However a landing is basically a controlled stall, so the anti-stall software is disabled when close to the ground.

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 9698
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:40 am

rurwin wrote:One of the famous "pilot error" crashes occurred because the co-pilot lost it and continued to demand maximum climb, even though the other stick was demanding exactly the opposite. The fly-by-wire system gave no indication that it was receiving contradictory inputs and probably just averaged them. In my opinion, that's a bug.


On the other hand, safe software is dangerous too. It might be the same crash W. H. Heydt mentions where the cause of the crash was the pilot's trust in the anti-stall software causing him to simply pull back hard on the stick at the end of a low pass. However a landing is basically a controlled stall, so the anti-stall software is disabled when close to the ground.
Probably. The one I was thinking of is where the plane went into the trees off the end of the runway.

Yup...same crash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

Heater
Posts: 11108
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:32 am

ruwin,
The fly-by-wire system gave no indication that it was receiving contradictory inputs and probably just averaged them. In my opinion, that's a bug.
I found similar "bugs" in the software of the Primary Flight Computers of the Boeing 777 when testing it.

For example if the three rudder position sensors disagreed, even for a short time, the rudder would be deemed totally broken and rudder control was lost permanently. Escalating the issue to Boeing the response was "correct program behaviour". It was written in the design specification. They intended it to do that.

That particular issue got fixed after an angry test pilot lost rudder control during stall testing, when turbulence bends the rudder and causes the sensors to disagree.

All of which seemed a bit odd to me. I know nothing much of flight controls, we were tasked with testing the program behaviour against the requirement specification, but even I could see that requirement made no sense at all.

User avatar
r3d4
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:21 am
Location: ./

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:12 pm

Heater wrote: I hope one day we humans can fix this.

Dont hold your breath

see also : viewtopic.php?f=62&t=95431&p=944504#p944504

I have friends with epilepsy , and an unkle who's girlfriend died of a epileptic seizure ...

some small insight into the ideology that drives the policy can be found if any one is intrestined look up "a newly released interview of John Ehrlichman,"

*evaporates*

User avatar
r3d4
Posts: 952
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:21 am
Location: ./

Re: Would the world be a better place?

Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:43 pm

Ill just add this url hear as it~is vaguely related .

**It's getting better all the time .

newscientist.com/article/2086454-revealed-google-ai-has-access-to-huge-haul-of-nhs-patient-data



**many only apply to corporate person's.

Return to “Off topic discussion”