User avatar
clive
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1013
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:19 pm

Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:35 am

a) Man avoids hitting things with horse.
b) Mankind sets down mobile laboratory on another planet.

So - which one gets the front page of every UK national newspaper? ;)

alexchamberlain
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:20 am
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:29 am

Yeah, but it cost $2.5 billion to land something on another planet.
Developer of piimg, a utility for working with RPi images.

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:40 am

It only cost $2.5 billion to land the laboratory, whereas it cost $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse. The horse is obviously six times more important.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 24175
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:44 am

clive wrote:a) Man avoids hitting things with horse.
b) Mankind sets down mobile laboratory on another planet.

So - which one gets the front page of every UK national newspaper? ;)
And which is most important to the readership of that paper?

I'd say the horse stuff. And I'm a space fan....how that skycrane stuff ever worked is a mystery to me.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

alexchamberlain
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:20 am
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:44 am

rurwin wrote:And $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse, so that is obviously the lead story since it cost more.
How'd you work that out!?!

Don't get me wrong. Landing on Mars is incredible, but when prioritising Scientific and Technological spending I can think of a lot of things that come above flying to Mars at a cost of $2.5 billion. Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?
Developer of piimg, a utility for working with RPi images.

User avatar
scep
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:53 am

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:08 am

alexchamberlain wrote:Yeah, but it cost $2.5 billion to land something on another planet.
That is a lot! You could build 25 ephemeral equestrian stadia with that and still have 10 million quid left over to buy two or three horses.

User avatar
clive
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1013
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:19 pm

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:15 am

alexchamberlain wrote:...Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?
This is a false dichotomy. It's like the Godwin's law of space exploration debates ;)

My point is how science and tech is viewed (and understood) by the average person. STEM is in crisis in many developing countries, certainly in the UK. The Raspberry Pi didn't come about for no reason :)

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:25 am

But the articles were only the latest in the on-going Olympics story, and the Olympics has cost $14.5B, albeit there's a profit element that isn't factored in, but neither is it factored in to the Mars mission. I make no excuse for being flippant; the OP is flippant.

Regarding the skycrane, it does seem insanely complex and I have no insight into the design process, but two factors spring to mind. As someone who knows control loops, I would far rather stabilise an altitude of 20 feet than an altitude of zero feet with no overshoot possible. Then there is the problem of landing the craft only to have the exit ramp obstructed by a big boulder.

(Note: I edited the previous post, which is why Alex's quote of me is not word-perfect.)
Last edited by rurwin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

mikerr
Posts: 2789
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:46 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:33 am

alexchamberlain wrote:
rurwin wrote:And $14.5 billion to avoid hitting things with a horse, so that is obviously the lead story since it cost more.
How'd you work that out!?!
That's the headline cost of staging the 2012 olympics.
Don't get me wrong. Landing on Mars is incredible, but when prioritising Scientific and Technological spending I can think of a lot of things that come above flying to Mars at a cost of $2.5 billion. Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?
$2.5 bn is tiny on a government level.

Curiosity has a power source to last 14+ years from a 4Kg package - but the public doesn't like nuclear in any form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Science_Laboratory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisoto ... _generator

There were/are even pacemakers using this tech that last 80+ years, battery powered pacemakers last 10 years.

So... nuclear powered Pi anyone ? ;)
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

User avatar
Burngate
Posts: 6100
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: Berkshire UK Tralfamadore
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:02 pm

I have to ask ... Re Red Dwarf ...
If Curiosity killed the Cat, do we have an extradition treaty with Mars?

gritz
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:33 am

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Burngate wrote:I have to ask ... Re Red Dwarf ...
If Curiosity killed the Cat, do we have an extradition treaty with Mars?
:lol: Ouch!

Re MSL v. Olympics: I think there's plenty of room for both, but as a space geek I have to say that $2.5Bn for the Mars mission looks like a bargain.

"But it's a lot of money for a 6 wheeled thingy with a few cameras and whatnot."

It's not just about the hardware though. It's about the scientists, engineers and young graduates behind the project. Excellence, teamwork, interpreting data when you have no benchmarks and problem solving on the hoof with such high stakes are all transferable skills. This project will breed a lot of uber boffins and in a world where cheap-ass mediocrity is the norm (sometimes justifiably, sometimes not) I think it's good to set some examples of no-compromise superlatives - and I guess that applies to the Olympics as well as to science. No one ever got inspired by "almost good enough." :)

Remember that NASA has already tried the "faster, better, cheaper" thing and found that they could only ever perm two out of three at best...

Anyway, hats off to the scientists and engineers involved with Curiosity (and hats off to the British Olympians too!)

pygmy_giant
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:53 pm

And there's the added value of spin-offs... I look forward to seeing sky cranes being used commercially on our planet in the near future, and horses on strictly come dancing.

User avatar
abishur
Posts: 4477
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:10 am
Location: USA
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:17 pm

alexchamberlain wrote: Where are the solutions to the world's energy problems, for instance?
To be fair, we currently have total solutions to the world's energy problems... except that the means has been really demonized by people who don't understand it :-(

That and it costs a truckload of money to build an energy plant, especially one that isn't coal. So there are lots of discouragements from building new coal power plants to meet rising demand (and I'm a-okay with that! :lol:), nuclear power is considered the devil (a very expensive devil at that!), solar requires too much land for too little payoff (unless you're Israel and distribute the grid across everyone's roof), which effectively leaves you with wind. It get's great publicity, relatively cheap to set up, relatively small amounts of land required... still a fairly poor payoff, but upkeep is very low cost so it makes it monetarily worth while, and everyone collectively turns a blind eye to the fact it increases erosion and kill massive amounts of migratory birds since it's "green"

So you see that there *is* a solution. It's just expensive and can't get political backing. So they throw some coliseum games our way and hope that no one cares that they play the violin while Rome burns ;-)

*whew* I think that used up my yearly allotment of cynicism! :lol:
Dear forum: Play nice ;-)

alexchamberlain
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:20 am
Location: Leamington Spa, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:23 pm

Wasn't there a break through in the States using IR antennas as an "IR solar panel" at much higher efficiencies? What happen to that?

Whilst I'm cool with Nuclear power, there have been a few problems over the years, so I can understand people saying No.
Developer of piimg, a utility for working with RPi images.

User avatar
Jim JKla
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne UK

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:29 pm

Here comes my ten penneth.

The current rush of medals in the velodrome + Wiggo is gona get a load of people on bykes thats got to help our carbon footprint.

Down side on the horses (and there's a couple) the first the methane source and the second the biggest element of the average family carbon footprint is a pet dog pet horses have to be equally as bad.

If we don't solve the global warming stuff at least we know how to power a car on Mars it may also find some prime real estate and heaven knows what else. :mrgreen:

Another benifit no nimbyism with wind terbines on Mars. :lol:
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:42 pm

Horses are only machines for converting carbon dioxide into methane via grass. That's not harmless, since IIRC methane is worse than CO2 for climate change, but it is not as bad as it is painted and it is carbon-neutral. If the grass was left to rot it would probably produce around the same amount of methane.

Of course what we should be doing is growing trees, reducing them to charcoal and burying it in old coal mines. ;-)

User avatar
Jim JKla
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne UK

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:52 pm

Correct that just grow trees and bury in coal mines turning them into charcoal releases some of the co2.

There has to be more efficient plants than trees anyways. ;)
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

User avatar
mahjongg
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 12412
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:19 am
Location: South Holland, The Netherlands

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:56 pm

Have not read the whole thread, but let me guess:

UK newspapers? :cry:

User avatar
Jim JKla
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne UK

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:59 am

mahjongg wrote:Have not read the whole thread, but let me guess:
It's not that big :shock:
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

User avatar
Grumpy Mike
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Manchester (England England)
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:01 pm

Jim JKla wrote:The current rush of medals in the velodrome + Wiggo is gona get a load of people on bykes thats got to help our carbon footprint.
Until all those people want to be carted all over the country to attend bicycle "events" think of the fuel that will use.

pygmy_giant
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:08 pm

My bicycle was stolen, so there is definately a demand.

User avatar
MadHorseman
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:48 am
Location: Almadena, W Algarve, Portugal
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:12 am

Has anyone else ever tried missing things with a horse? Not easy, especially when sitting in an engineless wheeled device behing said animal....

User avatar
Jim JKla
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:15 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne UK

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:26 am

I tried, the horse suceeded, I didn't, I fell off and after the third time I gave up.

Kind of prooved it was the horse doing the work and not me. ;)

That would also kind of proove that the skill is in staying on the horse (that is avoiding things). :lol:
Noob is not derogatory the noob is just the lower end of the noob--geek spectrum being a noob is just your first step towards being an uber-geek ;)

If you find a solution please post it in the wiki the forum dies too quick

User avatar
Burngate
Posts: 6100
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: Berkshire UK Tralfamadore
Contact: Website

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:08 am

Led the horse through the gate, went back to shut the gate, the horse put its back hoof on my foot, and waited for me to lead it forward.

User avatar
RaTTuS
Posts: 10504
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 am
Location: North West UK
Contact: Twitter YouTube

Re: Man avoids hitting things with horse: media pop quiz

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:40 am

you can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead,
mate!
HMHB
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

Return to “Off topic discussion”