Bullseye300
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm

Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:09 am

Dear Community,

I'm happy to inform you that WoA is making great progress.

Many drivers are already working and the new USB driver should be ready this week or next.
https://discourse.pi64.win/t/mcci-usb-d ... 9-02-05/14
https://discourse.pi64.win/t/status-of- ... eb-2019/38

But there are also drivers where we still need help.
e.g. VCHIQ and VC4 GPU.
Does anyone know a good documentation of the VCHIQ?

We are using this UEFI:
64-bit Tiano Core UEFI for the Raspberry Pi 3 (with devices, Linux, NetBSD, FreeBSD and Windows on Arm!)
https://github.com/andreiw/RaspberryPiPkg



Our Telegram group: https://t.me/raspberrypiwoa
Windows on Raspberry imager: https://www.worproject.ml/
Our Forum: https://discourse.pi64.win/

Bullseye300
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:42 pm

We now have WHQL signed USB drivers and working Ethernet drivers.

Both can be found in Core Package 1.4: https://github.com/WOA-Project/WoA-Inst ... #downloads


The first one already works on the "Microsoft VC4 graphic render only" driver: https://discourse.pi64.win/t/microsoft- ... driver/113

jamesh
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Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:54 pm

One question before I close this thread.

Can you provide any citations that running Windows 10 on Raspberry Pi does NOT contravene any Microsoft Licence agreements? Or what you have to do to ensure that you are running the OS legally?

Please, this question is for the OP, no-one else need respond, UNLESS they have proof this is legal.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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geev03
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:38 pm

Don't do anything illegal or stupid within this program.
https://tldrlegal.com/license/microsoft ... -agreement

Andyroo
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Location: Lincs U.K.

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:02 pm

geev03 wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:38 pm
Don't do anything illegal or stupid within this program.
https://tldrlegal.com/license/microsoft ... -agreement
That article is now 4 years old - the correct insider link is https://insider.windows.com/en-gb/program-agreement/ and only applies to a pre-installed copy of Windows. Basically this insider stream changes the settings on your CURRENT Windows 10 install to receive the downloads in advance of the general release. It does not give you access to a copy of the WOA software or even carte-blanche rights to share bespoke builds etc.:
6. Non-Transferable. You may not transfer or share the Software or related documentation or materials you receive from Microsoft as part of your participation in the Programme, unless otherwise agreed or permitted by Microsoft, or except if the laws where you live (or, if a business, where your principal place of business is located) permit this, even if our Agreement does not.
Having been involved with M/S beta testing (back to Windows Home Server days) the initial software can be flaky to say the least but its a great community and fun somedays. And yes I am an insider :oops:

edit: Apologies - I missed the following off for some reason:

1) The only build from M/S for the Pi is available at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/softwar ... windowsiot
2) This build currently resides at 17661
3) None of this is legal advice - you can download 17661 as part of the insider program under the IOT part of the program but if its only IOT or 'full' desktop I cannot tell (no spare Pi and banned from another this month by the wife).

TL;DR:
This is not the agreement this build is built on. The question still resides with the OP.
Need Pi spray - these things are breeding in my house...

Bullseye300
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:38 pm

The question was also clarified by the driver manufacturer before he developed the drivers:

Windows Insider is self-activating. Same as on x86 systems.
https://insider.windows.com/en-us/program-agreement/

A valid license is required for non-insiders.

So the project is legal.


We also do not sell Microsoft products.
We only offer drivers and a forum.


Project News:
Windows 10 ARM64 can now also be installed on an SSD and booted via USB.

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TLoATDaE
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:48 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:44 am

Greetings, fellow Pi-folk!

I am looking here for (step-by-step) instructions of exactly How To Do The Installation onto a Raspberry Pi 3B+.
Let me say that I was a bit excited by this showing up on Slashdot.org, and it gave me quite a charge to think that the Little Computer That Could will actually run Windows "natively".

For reference, I have downloaded the "Installer tool", the "core package 1.3.0" and have managed to create a file: 17763.292.190115-1726.RS5_RELEASE_SVC_PROD2_CLIENTPRO_OEMRET_A64FRE_EN-US.ISO
That said, I am now at a loss. Adding to this, the instruction pages have been lost to me... I originally found this on Slashdot, but can't remember where I went from there to get where I am now...

I blame "sometimers disease".

All things considered, I am not entirely a noob, but am also (apparently) not savvy enough to figure out how to do this for myself.
Mostly, I am looking to try and figure out just how functional (or not) Windows 10 is on such a fixed piece of hardware as the Pi3B+.
Links and an order of operations (with what to expect) would be most helpful. Minimum specs for the MicroSD Card would also be appreciated, too.

Thanks in advance.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:56 am

Considering this uses Win10 ARM, I assume it does not run any x86 programs? So anyone looking to install this so they can run their favourite x86 program, might be in for some disappointment.

Although it does appear developers can access some tools to make their x86 application into an ARM64 app.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/16/180 ... port-arm64
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

Bullseye300
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:07 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:39 am

Core Package 1.3 is deprecated.

but generally none is needed anymore. It installs the drivers automatically:
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Deployer-Rpi


You can emulate x86 programs.But only 32bit.
But not necessary, because the most important programs are already available as ARM64.


You can get support at: https://discourse.pi64.win/

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thagrol
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:55 pm

Bullseye300 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:38 pm
The question was also clarified by the driver manufacturer before he developed the drivers:

Windows Insider is self-activating. Same as on x86 systems.
https://insider.windows.com/en-us/program-agreement/

A valid license is required for non-insiders.

So the project is legal.


We also do not sell Microsoft products.
We only offer drivers and a forum.


Project News:
Windows 10 ARM64 can now also be installed on an SSD and booted via USB.
So you have to either be a member of the Insiders programme or have a valid license key, which, apparently, you can't enter even if you could purchase one.

As you're offering more than "drivers and a forum" (a download and build tool) shouldn't you mention the licensing on your website or at least make it very obvious that the end user is responsible for correctly licensing their windows?
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bensimmo
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm

The Insider Program will have all the tracking and checking and logging and being sent to Microsoft as per the insider program purpose. So they should know these are being run on a Pi.

Has anyone asked Microsoft yet ?

If they do allow it and eventually bring it out, it paves the way for school to also use more Pi and if the future Pi can run it to an acceptable standard all the better. More sold, more learning, more for the RPF.
I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft went for it, they've changed a lot over the years.

Anyways, I await a Microsoft confirmation, they shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of.
What does the Feedback Hub report ?

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thagrol
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:42 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm
If they do allow it and eventually bring it out, it paves the way for school to also use more Pi and if the future Pi can run it to an acceptable standard all the better. More sold, more learning, more for the RPF.
I'll bite.

Why on earth would any school want to run full windows on a Pi? Especially when (based on current desktop license prices) one can buy multiple Pi for the cost of a single windows license.

Windows is needed when teaching windows apps. It isn't needed when teaching computing.
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bensimmo
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:43 pm

It's not about making people bit

Most schools that I know of use Windows, they already have the licenses, be it individual or Educational and if it is cheap enough then they can roll them out.
It does of course have to be usable as a desktop, hence probably not this generation of Pi.

A lot of teaching is done with Windows, ICT, databases, programming, CAD, Imaging, Video, Office and just general use aside from the teachers.
Software is made for it.
It would ease integration into the network's (remember few have highly paid IT people in a school, they just cannot pay that much).

You may be surprised how many do not have and do not use RaspberryPi's but happily teach the National Curriculum.
They don't need them to teach.

People like Windows, you may not.
It works for them.

My school, had a load of them, does not use them as the Teachers see no benefit and just added complication. And my school is very flexible at getting things done.

My sons Senior school (2000/2500 size) when I asked does not use or see a need for them, it doesn't aid what they need to teach. It hard enough for them to get what they need in the first place
They do however recommend to anyone doing the Computing or Computer Science GCSE to buy one if they don't have a desktop computer (i.e. modern Phone/Tablet families) as it cheap and pretty easy to get working again and present everything they need (office and programming) and they can get a feel of a 'computer'.

Most likely Microsoft could use a similar license to the Tablet, where it is free under a certain sized screen.
A Pi could easily handle a free license for use, it get more people using Windows and the system.
They already give a fair bit of free software out and such like, especially if they can get people use their cloud services. They know it's a different market now.


May, may not happen.
Some people will use it, some will not.

I have no need to use it.

I'm not stuck with mind of having to use a Linux system because it's a Linux system or a Windows system because it Windows.
Just use whatever you are comfortable with and does the job you need.
Let schools decide what they need and can afford.

hippy
Posts: 5607
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Location: UK

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:55 pm

thagrol wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:55 pm
So you have to either be a member of the Insiders programme or have a valid license key, which, apparently, you can't enter even if you could purchase one.
I'm not sure if what was written is how it was meant. My understanding is that if you install it and boot it then it will self-authenticate itself and say it's licensed. Ergo it's a legitimate licensed installation. 'It says so itself'.

Now whether I've got that right, and more importantly whether it having done that, even says that, actually makes it a legitimate, legally licensed product which can then be used, I wouldn't know.
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm
The Insider Program will have all the tracking and checking and logging and being sent to Microsoft as per the insider program purpose. So they should know these are being run on a Pi.
I imagine Microsft are well aware of efforts to get Windows 10 desktop running on a Pi.
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm
Anyways, I await a Microsoft confirmation, they shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of.
I expect getting anything out of Microsoft on this issue will be as equally fruitful as getting the Foundation or RPT to release details of future product plans.

When it comes to licensing and use of unlicensed product my lingering impression is that Microsoft won't say anything unless it is something they want to put a stop to, and even then there will often be scope to read between the lines.

I suspect that's driven by wanting people to license things and pay money for those licences, but would rather have them using unlicensed things than lose them, but they are never going to say that, and wouldn't be expected to. It's easier to neither confirm nor deny, better to have grey areas, keep their options open.

I don't expect anyone to get told "what you are doing is okay", but I equally don't expect them to say no it isn't.

The bottom line is that if they wanted to put a stop to it they could. But just because they haven't doesn't mean anything beyond that they haven't.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:15 pm

The only issue, beside legality, is if a new "preview / testing / beta" release will it be feasible to update or will it be stuck on this release .....
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

Andyroo
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:15 pm
The only issue, beside legality, is if a new "preview / testing / beta" release will it be feasible to update or will it be stuck on this release .....
I would add given the thrashing Windows does to disks when it runs low on memory (even Windows S) then the cost in SD cards will mount up to the cost of a low end PC with more performance :lol:
Need Pi spray - these things are breeding in my house...

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bensimmo
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:08 pm

hippy wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:55 pm
thagrol wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:55 pm
So you have to either be a member of the Insiders programme or have a valid license key, which, apparently, you can't enter even if you could purchase one.
I'm not sure if what was written is how it was meant. My understanding is that if you install it and boot it then it will self-authenticate itself and say it's licensed. Ergo it's a legitimate licensed installation. 'It says so itself'.

Now whether I've got that right, and more importantly whether it having done that, even says that, actually makes it a legitimate, legally licensed product which can then be used, I wouldn't know.
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm
The Insider Program will have all the tracking and checking and logging and being sent to Microsoft as per the insider program purpose. So they should know these are being run on a Pi.
I imagine Microsft are well aware of efforts to get Windows 10 desktop running on a Pi.
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:18 pm
Anyways, I await a Microsoft confirmation, they shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of.
I expect getting anything out of Microsoft on this issue will be as equally fruitful as getting the Foundation or RPT to release details of future product plans.

When it comes to licensing and use of unlicensed product my lingering impression is that Microsoft won't say anything unless it is something they want to put a stop to, and even then there will often be scope to read between the lines.

I suspect that's driven by wanting people to license things and pay money for those licences, but would rather have them using unlicensed things than lose them, but they are never going to say that, and wouldn't be expected to. It's easier to neither confirm nor deny, better to have grey areas, keep their options open.

I don't expect anyone to get told "what you are doing is okay", but I equally don't expect them to say no it isn't.

The bottom line is that if they wanted to put a stop to it they could. But just because they haven't doesn't mean anything beyond that they haven't.
Absolutely agree and that's my take on it too. It's been like that with many things and especially Windows10. The last one being the Accessibility Free Upgrade method (well worth it too).
If they are not loosing money from it, why worry. If somebody else is making money on it then that's a problem.

Although ARM64 has a 'bug' at the moment and so it's not getting newer insider builds.

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thagrol
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:12 pm

hippy wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:55 pm
thagrol wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:55 pm
So you have to either be a member of the Insiders programme or have a valid license key, which, apparently, you can't enter even if you could purchase one.
I'm not sure if what was written is how it was meant.
It was.
My understanding is that if you install it and boot it then it will self-authenticate itself and say it's licensed. Ergo it's a legitimate licensed installation. 'It says so itself'.
IANAL, but that's not how I'd interpret it. Whether it's legal depends entirely on the wording of the license agrement. Which, according to the summary posted by the OP means you have to be part of the insider programe or have a seperate license. Just because it self activates doesn't mean you have a license to use it.

I could activate a bunch of PCs with the same license key if they're never connected to the internet (Last I cjeck you could still activate Windows 10 by telephone) but that doesn't mean I have a license to use all of them.
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thagrol
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:42 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:43 pm
It's not about making people bit

Most schools that I know of use Windows, they already have the licenses, be it individual or Educational and if it is cheap enough then they can roll them out.
I imagine they do. But any speculation about future possibilties is just that: speculation.
A lot of teaching is done with Windows, ICT, databases, programming, CAD, Imaging, Video, Office and just general use aside from the teachers.
Sure, but it doesn't have to be. None of those things require Windows for them to be taught. with the possible exception of Office and only then if you're specifically training someone to use Microsoft products.
Software is made for it.
Can't argue with that. But remember that before Window's global domination software for teaching was made for lots of platforms.
It would ease integration into the network's (remember few have highly paid IT people in a school, they just cannot pay that much).
Not necessarily. If an admin can use windows GUI tools to handle network integration they should be able to handle linux GUI tools. Oh, and you don't have to be highly paid to be a sys admin.
You may be surprised how many do not have and do not use RaspberryPi's but happily teach the National Curriculum.
They don't need them to teach.
Not really, and that kinda backs up my position that teaching computing is/should be platform agnostic. If you don't need linux/Raspberry Pi, you also don't need Windows. Unless the National Curruclum specifically requires Windows (and then I'd be asking why).
People like Windows, you may not.
It works for them.
I'm ambivalent towards Windows. If it's the right tool for a job I'll use it. If it's not, I'll use something else.
My school, had a load of them, does not use them as the Teachers see no benefit and just added complication. And my school is very flexible at getting things done.
That's a shame but I don't see that changing when/if Pi can run Windows.
My sons Senior school (2000/2500 size) when I asked does not use or see a need for them, it doesn't aid what they need to teach. It hard enough for them to get what they need in the first place
They do however recommend to anyone doing the Computing or Computer Science GCSE to buy one if they don't have a desktop computer (i.e. modern Phone/Tablet families) as it cheap and pretty easy to get working again and present everything they need (office and programming) and they can get a feel of a 'computer'.
When did "modern phone/tablet families" become desktop replacements?
Most likely Microsoft could use a similar license to the Tablet, where it is free under a certain sized screen.
I'm not privvy to Microsoft's licensing scheme for tablets so can't comment.
A Pi could easily handle a free license for use, it get more people using Windows and the system.
It's not the license it has to handle, it the OS and software, and "getting more people using Windows" is not necessarily a good thing. Too much reliance on a single supplier is asking for trouble. Ever heard the term "single point of failure"?

They already give a fair bit of free software out and such like, especially if they can get people use their cloud services. They know it's a different market now.
So it's not really free. It's by subscription. Like Office. Or, like comercial TV by advertising.
May, may not happen.
Some people will use it, some will not.

I have no need to use it.

I'm not stuck with mind of having to use a Linux system because it's a Linux system or a Windows system because it Windows.
Howerevr " Windows system because it Windows" seems to be your argument in favour of running Windows on Pi.
Just use whatever you are comfortable with and does the job you need.
I do.
Let schools decide what they need and can afford.
Fair enough, but I'd be asking any cash strapped school why they're spending money on Microsoft licenses when free-as-in-beer alternatives exist and perform the same functions. Money given to Microsoft is money that can't be spent on other things.

I'll shut up now as we're getting away from the topic of this thread.
This space unintentionally left blank.

mesmariusz
Posts: 57
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Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:28 am

Hi. Does someone really successfully install Windows 10 on a Raspberry Pi 3B+?

I followed:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/in ... ,5993.html

Because WOA deployer increase into rev 2.0.0 there is no need to manual injecting a LAN drivers. So my steps was:

1. 32GB Class 10 card format.

2. Download: Windows10 ARM 1809:
https://uup.rg-adguard.net/

3. Generated ISO mount

4. Download and run WOA:
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Depl ... tag/v2.0.0

5. Browse: install.wim, perform: deploy

6. BIOS-a configured: follow https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/in ... ,5993.html


Everything should works but on a Raspberry Pi I stucked ona a Windows blue dead screen showing something worng with UEFI. But why? I just configured RPi BIOS to boot from SD. Even I select this option from boot manager during boot.

Someone is able to help me?

Thanks! :-)

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 20180
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:54 am

mesmariusz wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:28 am
Hi. Does someone really successfully install Windows 10 on a Raspberry Pi 3B+?

I followed:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/in ... ,5993.html

Because WOA deployer increase into rev 2.0.0 there is no need to manual injecting a LAN drivers. So my steps was:

1. 32GB Class 10 card format.

2. Download: Windows10 ARM 1809:
https://uup.rg-adguard.net/

3. Generated ISO mount

4. Download and run WOA:
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Depl ... tag/v2.0.0

5. Browse: install.wim, perform: deploy

6. BIOS-a configured: follow https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/in ... ,5993.html


Everything should works but on a Raspberry Pi I stucked ona a Windows blue dead screen showing something worng with UEFI. But why? I just configured RPi BIOS to boot from SD. Even I select this option from boot manager during boot.

Someone is able to help me?

Thanks! :-)

The Raspberry Pi SBC has no BIOS :shock:
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

mesmariusz
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:07 am

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:19 am

So maybe UEFI...

code_exec
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:25 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:48 am

The Pi has no UEFI, you must provide your own UEFI firmware such as TianoCore UEFI. I wonder if u-boot would work for Windows 10 ARM. It is a third-party bootloader for the Raspberry Pi which emulates UEFI and can therefore execute EFI binaries.
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop images for the Raspberry Pi 3.

https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

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bensimmo
Posts: 4128
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Location: East Yorkshire

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:32 am

thagrol wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:42 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:43 pm
It's not about making people bit

Most schools that I know of use Windows, they already have the licenses, be it individual or Educational and if it is cheap enough then they can roll them out.
I imagine they do. But any speculation about future possibilties is just that: speculation.
A lot of teaching is done with Windows, ICT, databases, programming, CAD, Imaging, Video, Office and just general use aside from the teachers.
Sure, but it doesn't have to be. None of those things require Windows for them to be taught. with the possible exception of Office and only then if you're specifically training someone to use Microsoft products.
Software is made for it.
Can't argue with that. But remember that before Window's global domination software for teaching was made for lots of platforms.
It would ease integration into the network's (remember few have highly paid IT people in a school, they just cannot pay that much).
Not necessarily. If an admin can use windows GUI tools to handle network integration they should be able to handle linux GUI tools. Oh, and you don't have to be highly paid to be a sys admin.
You may be surprised how many do not have and do not use RaspberryPi's but happily teach the National Curriculum.
They don't need them to teach.
Not really, and that kinda backs up my position that teaching computing is/should be platform agnostic. If you don't need linux/Raspberry Pi, you also don't need Windows. Unless the National Curruclum specifically requires Windows (and then I'd be asking why).
People like Windows, you may not.
It works for them.
I'm ambivalent towards Windows. If it's the right tool for a job I'll use it. If it's not, I'll use something else.
My school, had a load of them, does not use them as the Teachers see no benefit and just added complication. And my school is very flexible at getting things done.
That's a shame but I don't see that changing when/if Pi can run Windows.
My sons Senior school (2000/2500 size) when I asked does not use or see a need for them, it doesn't aid what they need to teach. It hard enough for them to get what they need in the first place
They do however recommend to anyone doing the Computing or Computer Science GCSE to buy one if they don't have a desktop computer (i.e. modern Phone/Tablet families) as it cheap and pretty easy to get working again and present everything they need (office and programming) and they can get a feel of a 'computer'.
When did "modern phone/tablet families" become desktop replacements?
Most likely Microsoft could use a similar license to the Tablet, where it is free under a certain sized screen.
I'm not privvy to Microsoft's licensing scheme for tablets so can't comment.
A Pi could easily handle a free license for use, it get more people using Windows and the system.
It's not the license it has to handle, it the OS and software, and "getting more people using Windows" is not necessarily a good thing. Too much reliance on a single supplier is asking for trouble. Ever heard the term "single point of failure"?

They already give a fair bit of free software out and such like, especially if they can get people use their cloud services. They know it's a different market now.
So it's not really free. It's by subscription. Like Office. Or, like comercial TV by advertising.
May, may not happen.
Some people will use it, some will not.

I have no need to use it.

I'm not stuck with mind of having to use a Linux system because it's a Linux system or a Windows system because it Windows.
Howerevr " Windows system because it Windows" seems to be your argument in favour of running Windows on Pi.
Just use whatever you are comfortable with and does the job you need.
I do.
Let schools decide what they need and can afford.
Fair enough, but I'd be asking any cash strapped school why they're spending money on Microsoft licenses when free-as-in-beer alternatives exist and perform the same functions. Money given to Microsoft is money that can't be spent on other things.

I'll shut up now as we're getting away from the topic of this thread.
I'm not disagreeing as such, I just know what schools are like.
They stick with what they have as it works and then they patch it. They don't have the money or expertise to start afresh, the LEA don't help as there is no central knowledge or system in use. Everyone is left to fend for themselves. Large Academies are in a better position, but they are often still left as a header company and the schools still fend for themselves. Many are not that large either.

That's ignoring all the Primary schools...

All I am saying is if they could plug and play a Pi into their systems, then can do just that. They don't have to train or find the time for the IT team (or lonely person) to integrate them.
I don't think any current Pi is in that replacement situation, certainly not the older Pi1's
Hence a Future Pi.

As for Tablet/Phone:
Tablet/Phone are what a lot of families only have now (and a console maybe). They don't have Laptops or Desktops, why would they, they don't need them.
Hence why the school is recommending the Pi for working on at home as a Desktop. The Pi can do what a phone/tablet cannot do easily.

fanoush
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:37 pm

Re: Windows 10 ARM64 (Dekstop, not IOT)

Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:00 pm

mesmariusz wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:28 am
2. Download: Windows10 ARM 1809:
This version is known not to work. Or at least this was so week ago. Only 1803 worked for me.

But anyway, is is very slow even when CPU clock is raised to Max, starting cmd or powershell or basically anything takes many,many minutes. And this is already after customizing it via Winaero Tweaker to turn off many features.

Maybe booting from USB SSD will improve it once they get it working.

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