MiklosTomka
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:43 pm

Hello all,

I have recently purchased two Raspberry Pi units. I really liked the idea of RiscOS - so I tried it.

When I installed RiscOS via Noobs - it initially worked. Then I updated the applications - and after the update the Pi did not start any more ( at all). I did nothing else - just did an update immediately after installing RiscOS.

Then I took the RC11 image for Rasp Pi. Launched it, and did an update. The result is again disappointing: there are all kinds of graphical glitches (black screen etc.) - it works but it looks like crap. Also, every second start freezes (if froze with the brand new install - but restarting brings it back to life)

So: is it possible that one is not supposed to do updates?

Or is there any other trick to make this work?

I would appreciate any pointers. ( The Pi itself works fine with other distributions - with no issues whatsoever)

Thank you all

Peterdl
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:30 am

Hi,
When you say you are updating it, just how are you updating it ? There IS a way to do it but it's quite involved. I'd say stick with the RC11 distribution and wait for RC12 to come out.

Pete.

MiklosTomka
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:21 am

I tried to update by using the RiscOS application manager. Is that not working?

Peterdl
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:31 am

As far as I am aware, the files that it updates to are from a very early version of RISC OS 5. The only way at the moment to update to the Beta version is to do it manually. This is quite involved and you really need to know what you are doing to avoid headaches.
If you have a look at the ROOL Forum https://www.riscosopen.org/forum/ , there are many posts there that tell you how to do it and any pitfalls to be aware of.

Pete

microbitsuk
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Perth WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:15 pm

Look it's no big deal to upgrade your existing Risc os setup but you have to be careful , i will outline it for you so follow the steps.

Step 1: start risc os on your PI

Step 2: create a new directory folder called new PI in the main window and open it by click on the new folder the folder will be empty leave it open for the files that you need to download later.

Step 3: Open netsurf and click on the ROOL Link on the welcome page

Step 4: Click on the software link in the top navbar this opens to the download page, click on essentials-ROM images ect this opens the ROM image Releases.

Step 5: click to download new boot (the file you need is the first of the disc based downloads called Beta HardDisc4) this will open a netsurf download drag the blue folder with the yellow & red Z into you open New Pi folder you created at step 2 this will take a minute or two depending on your download speed when it's done you will have a file called HardDisc4.

Step 6: when this is downloaded move down the page to the new beta PI Rom (RC12) and download this rom and put it in your new Pi folder.

Step 7: rename the file HardDisc4 in your new Pi Folder to HardDisc, When you have done this you can double click on the file to open it, this will open a folder with the folder called HardDisc4 click & drag this into your New Pi folder to Unpack.
You will now have a file called HardDisc and a folder called HardDisc4 if you open the folder you will find !boot, Apps Ect.

Step 8: you need to update you existing hard disc image with the new files in Harddisc4 folder.
So menu click over the raspberry pi icon on the right hand side of the Iconbar at the bottom of the screen select configure
this will open the configuration window, click boot icon top left, then click install to open boot merge,
Click drag the !boot out of the folder HardDisc4 onto the merge window the buttons at the bottom of the window will show
Agenda Cancel Merge click the merge button this will update your boot system, also copy all the other folders by drag & dropping them on top of the existing folder in the main window to complete the upgrade to you boot system.

Step 9: important bit next so be careful, when the merge is complete close the configuration window but leave the New Pi and main window open. be careful with this bit hold the shift key down and double click on the !boot in the main window,
This will open your !boot Folder look for the folder called Loader and double click to open inside you will see Boot/Scr BootCode/Bin, RISCOS/IMG you need to update the file Riscos/IMG with the file in the folder New Pi called BCM2835-RC12/5/21 open this file the same way that you opened harddisc the file needs to be renamed to work but don't do this until you have copied it into the folder called Loader, go ahead and copy the file into the folder called Loader, next rename the existing file called RISCOS/IMG to OLDRiscOS/IMG, now you can add the /img to the file RISCOS renaming it to RISCOS/IMG.

Step 10: Restart your Pi your pi will now be running the RC12 build.

Hope this helps
Regards rob

MiklosTomka
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:24 pm

Thank you for the detailed description.

All I wanted to do is to use the Packman program (to get more programs and to update existing ones) - as Packman informs me about many available updates.

Is it fair to say that Packman does not work at this time - as running it lead to a non functioning or buggy system?

Do people update their RiscOS programs? How? Or do you just use what is there, without updating?

I am a little bit lost ( most probably because I know so little about RiscOS): can somebody please guide me?

User avatar
GavinW
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:38 pm

Hold hard there, microbitsuk! I got as far as step 9. I tried to copy the file called riscos, inside BCM2835-RC12/5/21/zip, into Loader but got a message saying that there was not room for it.
What do I do now? Presumably, as well as renaming riscos to RISCOS/IMG it should also have its filetype changed from &FE5 to &FE4 (DOS)?
otium negare negotium vanum

Peterdl
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:50 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:17 am

As Rob says, you CAN upgrade but you have to be careful. It's ok for those of us that have been using RISC OS for a number of years as we are used to the various differences of the system compared to Windows/Linux (upgrading !Boot for example).
There have been many people on here that have given RISC OS up as a bad job because they find it frustrating that upgrading the system has to be done so precisely and it's a lot different to Windows/Linux.
Packman is a very capable program and I have upgraded some programs through it. However the system files revert to a previous version for some reason.

What I suggest you do is stick with RC11 (using the seperate download rather than NOOBS) and wait for RC12 to become available. Have a play around the system in conjunction with reading the various manuals that are provided (especially the guide that is visible on first boot up). Pop on over to the ROOL forum and have a look around the Community Support & General forums. When you get a bit more confident then you can start to adjust settings, alter file contents to suit your way of working etc.

microbitsuk
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Perth WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:50 am

No need to stress GavinW you can shift drag the RISCOS/IMG file out of the loader folder this will move the file for you then this will give enough space to replace it with your new file.
By the way the folder called Loader is a small dos partition so that is why you add the /IMG at the end only Risc os understands the meta data imbedded in the file type.
also the fact that you got all the way to step 9 is great, give yourself a pat on the back that you got all that way without the use of a wizard.
Last edited by microbitsuk on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Burngate
Posts: 6003
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: Berkshire UK Tralfamadore
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:11 am

Peterdl wrote:... However the system files revert to a previous version for some reason...
Is this because by default Folder options appear to not be set to "Newer"?
I have always set that option on, as I tend to lose less that way.
Options-c75.jpg
Options-c75.jpg (28.57 KiB) Viewed 5255 times

User avatar
GavinW
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:35 pm

Thanks for that
otium negare negotium vanum

MiklosTomka
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:08 am

Peterdl wrote:As Rob says, you CAN upgrade but you have to be careful. It's ok for those of us that have been using RISC OS for a number of years as we are used to the various differences of the system compared to Windows/Linux (upgrading !Boot for example).
There have been many people on here that have given RISC OS up as a bad job because they find it frustrating that upgrading the system has to be done so precisely and it's a lot different to Windows/Linux.
Packman is a very capable program and I have upgraded some programs through it. However the system files revert to a previous version for some reason.

What I suggest you do is stick with RC11 (using the seperate download rather than NOOBS) and wait for RC12 to become available. Have a play around the system in conjunction with reading the various manuals that are provided (especially the guide that is visible on first boot up). Pop on over to the ROOL forum and have a look around the Community Support & General forums. When you get a bit more confident then you can start to adjust settings, alter file contents to suit your way of working etc.
Than you - I will follow your advice!

microbitsuk
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Perth WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:30 am

Don't take this the wrong way but playing safe will get you no where, Risc OS is not an OS that leads you by the ring in your nose you have to sometimes grab the the bull by the horns and get on with it. you will never learn how things work if you play the safe game.
As delboy would say he who dares wins. the worst you can do is corrupt the SDcard so you have to start again.

theom
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:53 pm

Re: Why does RiscOS not work for me?

Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:07 pm

MiklosTomka wrote:I tried to update by using the RiscOS application manager. Is that not working?
This is my fault. The RISC OS Open guys were under time pressure to get a new release out for the show last weekend, and the script that makes the packages failed. So the packages in the repository currently refer to an older version of the OS and the package manager state isn't quite in sync with what's on the image. That means it thinks it's running an even older version of the OS, and so upgrades to a 'new' (but still ancient) OS ROM that doesn't work with the current Pi firmware.

We've scheduled a session to sort this out properly (rather than the hacky script I wrote) but it won't be for a few weeks due to diary commitments. I've just withdrawn all the ROM and firmware packages, which should prevent breakage until things are fixed.

So I apologise. In the meantime sounds like other people have provided sensible advice.

Return to “RISCOS”