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DavidS
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:52 am

Allow me to help people out by giving a partial list of what features RISC OS has as well as a few available with add ons, sticking to only ones I feel are also available to Linux Then we can see what we feel is fair in testing between the two:
In RISC OS itself:
  • Small Kernel, with support for modular extensions.
  • The entire OS is modular by design.
  • Support for multiple filesystems by adding modules.
  • Support for Image File Systems.
  • A decent set of integrated graphics routines.
  • A quite decent vector font engine, that has been around longer than most others.
  • Extensible design.
  • User mode application memory protection, and application memory mapping.
  • Support for both static and dynamic allocation of memory for application or module usage.
  • A very good sound system, for playing sampled sounds from multiple applications.
  • A decent shell and shell scripting language.
  • A very usable builtin interpreted language.
  • Multiple types of device bus support.
  • A shared C library (likely to be one of Linux's advantages over RISC OS).
  • A Window Manager, including support for Windows, Icons (text and graphical), Menus, Pointer (Mouse) and more.
  • Support for resourses of predefined Icon Sprites as well as Window Definitioons.
  • Support for bundling Resources and Applications together.
  • A complete desktop environment.
  • Includes a few applications in the OS ROM.
  • Cooperative multitasking in the Window Manager.
  • Limited preemptive Multitasking.
  • Complete implimentation of Drag and Drop for most operations involving files.
  • Hopefully we will have complete SMP support in the near future. This item probably does not really belong on the list. Currently only extrememly limited support for SMP (barely usable).
  • Built in Assembler.
  • Toolbox (an extremely good GUI Toolkit).
And available to RISC OS (much of which is included in the standard distribution):
  • UnixLib: A compatibility library to aid in porting applications from Unix like systems, also acts as an alternative to the standard SharedCLib that is part of RISC OS.
  • Themes for window decore and releated,
  • SDL1.2.
  • Khronos for VideoCore IV (HW OpenGL for Raspberry Pi computers).
  • And a whole bunch more that I am not thinking of at the moment.
The above two lists are far from complete, though are hopefully enough to give people an idea of how to be fair in what we want to test in a Linxu system.

Also this list includes only things that I believe to be availble on Linux (even if they are not technically part of the OS).
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 am

Tell me about the shell scripting.
I noticed there was a headless version that was only 3.8MB.
But I did not see any source, so it is not open?
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DavidS
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:34 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 am
Tell me about the shell scripting.
I noticed there was a headless version that was only 3.8MB.
But I did not see any source, so it is not open?
The shell scripting is not the strongest point of RISC OS. Basically it has conditionals, system variables, maths, logic ops, loop on files (Repeat command), and all of the star commands. A shell script is called an 'Obey File' in RISC OS. I may have missed out a small thing or two. There are star commands to do a lot more things that one may expect.

Cintrol flow comes down to prety much If Then Else statements and Repeat command Loops.

Star commands cover everything from configuration to some gui stuff, and a lot of HW access stuff, pretty good debuging of executable code. Of course also the standard things like file management, time, etc.

Basically it is a bit more powerfull than AmigaDOS .script files or DOS BATCH files, though less powerful than Unix style shell scripts.

The abilities of an obey file have never had to be more than that, because BBC BASIC is built into the OS, thus giving the ability to do everything in a full interpreted programming language.

As to running headless, RISC OS can do so, though I am not sure how good of an idea that is with RISC OS. RISC OS is better suited to single user local terminal usage (that is the screen, KB, and Mouse attached directly to the computer being the terminal).

I have already mentioned the differences in the way the FS is shown to the user. We use dots to seperate directories (instead of slash), we use the ^ symbol to indicate the parrent of a directory, we use $ to indicate the root of a filesystem. The file system is per volume (like many OS's).

I do not know of a complete current version of RISC OS that is only 3.8MB, the ROM that I am running is 5MB, that is unless you are talking about the stripped down version that specifically targets BBC BASIC programming and is not even complete for that (many RISC OS BBC BASIC programs are desktop applications usng the Window Manager (WIMP) and that stripped version omits the Window Manager as well as omiting the text editor that you would normally use to do BBC BASIC on RISC OS (very few type in programs directly in the interpreter in RISC OS, the built in GUI based text editor supports tokenized BASIC, as do all the Programming Text Editors that are on RISC OS).
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DavidS
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:29 pm

You know I am going to put this thread down to a lesson learned. I should have just written the code for the initial set of tests in RISC OS, provided the skeloton as well for people to port to other ARM based OS's, and seen what the responce was.

Then I could have updated it as appropriate and whent from there. Or others could have created there own versions.

Instead I once again allowed the conversation to put a project on hold. I need to learn my lesson on this one, hence why I am typing it out loud (no one would see if I signed it out loud).
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Heater
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:00 pm

That's OK, now you have time to tinker with the fft_bench in 32 bit ARM assembler we are waiting for.

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DavidS
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:18 pm

Heater wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:00 pm
That's OK, now you have time to tinker with the fft_bench in 32 bit ARM assembler we are waiting for.
Did you read the post I just made. We know what the first post in the follow up thread to this will be (the actuall comparison instead of the proposal).

Though yes that is one peice of source currently on my screen in a !Zap window.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
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Michiel O.
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:46 pm

DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:18 pm
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
Have you seen this desktop computer with 24-core ARM Cortex-A53? More and more ARM based machines are hitting the market, which is good, because ARM is so efficient and elegant. $1200 is a bit more than $55, tho :mrgreen:
"You can't actually make computers run faster, you can only make them do less." - RiderOfGiraffes

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DavidS
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Michiel O. wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:46 pm
DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:18 pm
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
Have you seen this desktop computer with 24-core ARM Cortex-A53? More and more ARM based machines are hitting the market, which is good, because ARM is so efficient and elegant. $1200 is a bit more than $55, tho :mrgreen:
Thank you for that. though not that useful to RISC OS yet (SMP is still in its infancy on RISC OS).

Well have to look at the exact specs to see if the rest of it is worthwhile for RISC OS.

You know that you quoted my signature, correct?
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

hippy
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:05 pm

DavidS wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:29 pm
You know I am going to put this thread down to a lesson learned. I should have just written the code for the initial set of tests in RISC OS, provided the skeloton as well for people to port to other ARM based OS's, and seen what the responce was.
That is usually best in my experience. The more you can help people to help you the better and more useful the response will be, the more responses you will likely get.

That is also why I suggested simpler code rather than anything complicated. Most people don't have the time to get to grips with anything complicated and implement it themselves, even if it is just porting, especially for something which doesn't really interest them.

But people will be more willing to knock up a few lines of test code which is simple to implement and provide results just to help out.

Ask me to port and run a few lines of simple test code and I'll likely do that when I have a few spare moments. Anything more and I'm likely not interested, will probably have better things to do.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Proposal to show speed of RISC OS compared to Linux.

Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:30 am

How long before we see a new OS on Pi's
https://fuchsia.dev/

Android is dead, long live Fuchsia?
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