mikerr
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Pi-Noir - 'Night' vision camera (IR filter removed)

Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:37 am

Eben will share some of the neat stuff they've seen people do with the Pi over the last six months,
show a demo of their new hardware-accelerated desktop environment,
and talk about what we've got coming up next—including their night-vision camera module, Pinoir.
http://makerfaire.com/makers/raspberry- ... -new-toys/ - that was at the weekend, can't find a vid of it though.


Seems it's a raspicam without the IR filter ?
Good idea given the difficulty some had in removing the IR filter from the raspicam without totally destroying the camera.

Heh Farnell already have a page up:
http://uk.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/rpi- ... dp/2357308

[edit] 28-10-13
RS now have them in stock:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/video-modules/7902811/

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/bespoke/besp ... CMP=HP_RPi
Last edited by mikerr on Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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AndrewS
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:58 am

mikerr wrote:Heh Farnell already have a page up:
http://uk.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/rpi- ... dp/2357308
Apparently it's a camera board powered by a ARM1176JZF-S processor :shock: Wow... :lol: ;)

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recantha2
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:16 pm

Well, their Technical Data Sheet is the documentation for the Raspicam, so I'd say yes, this is the long-awaited cam without the IR filter.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:26 pm

I _think_ this is that presentation as a video: http://fora.tv/2013/09/21/raspberry_pi_shiny_new_toys

Although unless I missed something the camera isn't mentioned in that video... Strange
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:22 am

Yes this is the Camera board without the IR filter. I spoke with the camera manufacturer and he said as much. My understanding is that it is the just the standard camera board minus the IR filter.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:24 am

fuffkin wrote:Yes this is the Camera board without the IR filter. I spoke with the camera manufacturer and he said as much. My understanding is that it is the just the standard camera board minus the IR filter.
Straight from the manufacturers mouth...
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:35 pm

Is it possible to buy/hack/make an IR filter separately that could be put over the front of the cam like a stage light-filter? So I could stick a little solenoid on the side of the cam to toggle "night-mode" on/off?

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:45 pm

battlesnake wrote:Is it possible to buy/hack/make an IR filter separately that could be put over the front of the cam like a stage light-filter? So I could stick a little solenoid on the side of the cam to toggle "night-mode" on/off?
Certainly you can do that, this is actually a common feature on security cameras. Here is such a filter, I think:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-5mm-Optical-U ... 0529710153

Note you want to search for "IR cut filter" as "IR filter" often means a longpass (passes only IR) instead of shortpass (passes visible and blocks IR).

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:21 pm

jbeale wrote:
battlesnake wrote:Is it possible to buy/hack/make an IR filter separately that could be put over the front of the cam like a stage light-filter? So I could stick a little solenoid on the side of the cam to toggle "night-mode" on/off?
Certainly you can do that, this is actually a common feature on security cameras. Here is such a filter, I think:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-5mm-Optical-U ... 0529710153

Note you want to search for "IR cut filter" as "IR filter" often means a longpass (passes only IR) instead of shortpass (passes visible and blocks IR).
Brilliant, thanks!

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:29 pm

It is not a night vision camera if only the filter is left out. The low light sensitivity is too bad for that.

If you need to add an infra-red light source to light the scene to make anything visible at night that is something entirely different.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:30 am

Great news that the manufacturer is doing a no-filter option.....now we just need to get them to stop glueing the lens in place, so it can be easily re-focussed!

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0xFF
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:54 pm

Is it color or black/white camera? Is there Bayer filter on a CCD photosensor ?

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:06 pm

0xFF wrote:Is it color or black/white camera? Is there Bayer filter on a CCD photosensor ?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 56#p427056

i.e. same CCD, same lens, etc.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:19 pm

The Camera is CMOS not CCD and as far as I'm aware the Pi-Noir has no IR pass filter just the IR block filter has been removed.
Colour should still be possible although any IR emissions from filament bulbs or day light would cause the colours the go screwy.
Also IR has a different focal distance from regular light so when switching between the two modes you would need to adjusting the focus ring for a sharper image.
If you require a true IR pass capable camera then you would need an IR pass filter the cheapest option would be old 35mm negatives that have been developed and under exposed with an almost opaque appearance.
Once you have completed your setup try holding up a new £20 note with the queens head pointing at the camera and you see something half missing :D

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redhawk
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:42 pm

While on the subject of the Pi camera if I reduce the resolution from 5MP to 2.5 or lower will the software interpolate all the pixels from the sensor into the smaller resolution or does it skip pixels for speed??

Also would it be possible to interpolate maybe 3 or 4 frames on-the-fly into 1 if I reduced the capture rate to i.e. 5 fps??

The reason I'm asking is that interpolating pixels or frames can have an amazing impact on reducing colour variations and noise from low level lighting.

Richard S.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:21 pm

redhawk wrote:The Camera is CMOS not CCD and as far as I'm aware the Pi-Noir has no IR pass filter just the IR block filter has been removed.
Colour should still be possible although any IR emissions from filament bulbs or day light would cause the colours the go screwy.
Also IR has a different focal distance from regular light so when switching between the two modes you would need to adjusting the focus ring for a sharper image.
If you require a true IR pass capable camera then you would need an IR pass filter the cheapest option would be old 35mm negatives that have been developed and under exposed with an almost opaque appearance.
Once you have completed your setup try holding up a new £20 note with the queens head pointing at the camera and you see something half missing :D

Richard S.
There's not really a lot of difference between a CMOS sensor and CCD - they both work in the same way, just CMOS devices have a lot more processing on the sensor silicon itself, whilst a CCD just has the photon 'buckets'.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:22 pm

redhawk wrote:While on the subject of the Pi camera if I reduce the resolution from 5MP to 2.5 or lower will the software interpolate all the pixels from the sensor into the smaller resolution or does it skip pixels for speed??

Also would it be possible to interpolate maybe 3 or 4 frames on-the-fly into 1 if I reduced the capture rate to i.e. 5 fps??

The reason I'm asking is that interpolating pixels or frames can have an amazing impact on reducing colour variations and noise from low level lighting.

Richard S.
At the moment I think capture always uses the same full resolution mode then scales down, so you get the interpolation you want.

Not sure what you mean by your fps reduction thingy.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:31 pm

Sounds like he's asking for over-sampling? Which would obviously lead to lots of blur in scenes with any movement.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:36 pm

AndrewS wrote:Sounds like he's asking for over-sampling? Which would obviously lead to lots of blur in scenes with any movement.
We don't do oversampling over multiple frames. But you can do that as a post process if you wish. Astronomers do it all the time with image stacking.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:05 pm

AndrewS wrote:
0xFF wrote:Is it color or black/white camera? Is there Bayer filter on a CCD photosensor ?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 56#p427056

i.e. same CCD, same lens, etc.
Maybe next revision will be ;-)
I'm thinking about Leica M monochrom idea - sensor without Bayer filter.
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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:55 pm

0xFF wrote:
0xFF wrote:Is it color or black/white camera? Is there Bayer filter on a CCD photosensor ?
Maybe next revision will be ;-)
I'm thinking about Leica M monochrom idea - sensor without Bayer filter.
And then you could take three photographs, each time holding a red, green or blue acetate filter in front of the lens, and then recombine them into a colour picture... :lol:
(This is how high-end 3 CCD cameras work)

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:01 am

AndrewS wrote:And then you could take three photographs, each time holding a red, green or blue acetate filter in front of the lens, and then recombine them into a colour picture... :lol:
(This is how high-end 3 CCD cameras work)
I've owned a number of 3-CCD (and now 3-CMOS) video cameras. The funny thing is, though, that approach seems to be dying out. The modern high-end still and video cameras use only a single sensor chip, with a bayer filter pattern.... for example here is a highly regarded, just released $50k motion picture camera... it uses a single, bayer-pattern sensor.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:07 am

AndrewS wrote: And then you could take three photographs, each time holding a red, green or blue acetate filter in front of the lens, and then recombine them into a colour picture... :lol:
(This is how high-end 3 CCD cameras work)
No, I don't want color picture ;-).
Photo-sensor can collect a larger amount of light without Bayer filter, so it could be usable for security and motion detection in low light.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:01 am

Where can I get one of these in Ireland or the UK? We have a science demonstration next month to schoolchildren, and I'd like to do a demonstration of visible vs. near infrared reflectance.

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Re: Pi-Noir - Night vision camera

Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:08 pm

As far as I'm aware only RS or Farnell sell the PiCam so you'll be at the mercy of their reliable delivery times. :)
In the meantime if you simply want a cheap webcam to experiment with for IR filter modifications then the 10 quid TeckNet is probably just as good - http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 49#p305097

This camera is UVC compatible and capable of delivering a sharp 640x480 resolution (not 5megs as stated on the amazon page).
The IR filter glass is conveniently located at the back of the lens making it easy to unscrew and remove with the flick of a blade or small flat bladed screw driver.
To make the webcam fully infrared capable some under developed 35mm negatives (near opaque) needs to be placed in front of the lens.
Also if you happen to have the newish £20 note you might want to point this at your IR pass camera the Queen loses half her head.
I've not tried it with Euros notes but I would imagine other form of currency have similar kind of watermarking system.

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