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puppy101puppy
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Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Thu May 19, 2016 8:38 pm

The new camera module with Sony IMX219 will be amazing if global shutter is available. Any idea how to get global shutter work?

Thanks!

ixc
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Thu May 19, 2016 9:55 pm

imx219pq has rolling shutter
you can't get this resolution with a global shutter in this sort of price

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Thu May 19, 2016 11:09 pm

you can't get this resolution with a global shutter in this sort of price
Yet.
Give it a year or so.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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jbeale
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Thu May 19, 2016 11:26 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
you can't get this resolution with a global shutter in this sort of price
Yet.Give it a year or so.
I'd say that's optimistic. Global shutter has been in an entirely different price category for as long as there have been CMOS sensors AFAIK.
Also, if the info on this page applies generally, going to global shutter with other design parameters the same means the maximum frame rate is cut in half, and the readout noise is doubled.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Fri May 20, 2016 7:07 am

CCD tech applied to CMOS sensors
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/sens ... egius.html

Can hope it comes sooner, yes it will cost but not as much as it used to.
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/new_ ... 255_e.html
Disclaimer, I don't work for Sony, just found this stuff while looking for V2 data.
226 pin count, ouch, not routing that board.

How long before smart phones have global shutter?
Need global shutter chip with MiPi?
GoPro's? not sure, don't have one, I got Pi's.

Press announcement = ~2years before used in product?
How long before we as Joe Public can get this stuff from RPF?
Sony going to ignore the fastest growing PC company?
Not V2, or V3 maybe V4?

Pi's are being used in real products, cameras yet, soon?
Well maybe not the V2, it has issues;)
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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puppy101puppy
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Sat May 21, 2016 2:27 am

ixc wrote:imx219pq has rolling shutter
you can't get this resolution with a global shutter in this sort of price

I see. thought Sony IMX219 itself comes with global shatter options.

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puppy101puppy
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Sat May 21, 2016 2:28 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:CCD tech applied to CMOS sensors
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/sens ... egius.html

Can hope it comes sooner, yes it will cost but not as much as it used to.
http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/new_ ... 255_e.html
Disclaimer, I don't work for Sony, just found this stuff while looking for V2 data.
226 pin count, ouch, not routing that board.

How long before smart phones have global shutter?
Need global shutter chip with MiPi?
GoPro's? not sure, don't have one, I got Pi's.


That's so true.

Press announcement = ~2years before used in product?
How long before we as Joe Public can get this stuff from RPF?
Sony going to ignore the fastest growing PC company?
Not V2, or V3 maybe V4?

Pi's are being used in real products, cameras yet, soon?
Well maybe not the V2, it has issues;)

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puppy101puppy
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:19 am

Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Sat May 21, 2016 2:29 am

jbeale wrote:
Gavinmc42 wrote:
you can't get this resolution with a global shutter in this sort of price
Yet.Give it a year or so.
I'd say that's optimistic. Global shutter has been in an entirely different price category for as long as there have been CMOS sensors AFAIK.
Also, if the info on this page applies generally, going to global shutter with other design parameters the same means the maximum frame rate is cut in half, and the readout noise is doubled.

That looks reasonable. Thanks.

ralphhipps
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:52 pm

Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:43 pm

look about halfway down, it should be available if we can write to the correct register.

can raspistill do this?

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md

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jbeale
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm

Well, an old thread resurfaces... neither the v1 nor the v2 RPi cameras have true gobal shutter. That would require an entirely different architecture which uses more silicon and costs more money. There was a datasheet for the v1 (OmniVision OV5647) chip marked "confidential/preliminary" that listed on the first page "rolling shutter/global shutter" but that phrase appears nowhere else. Unclear whether it was a misprint or just misleading. It is possibly a reference to the flash mode, which still relies on an external physical shutter to control the exposure, unless the ONLY light is your flash. But in that case you could get the same effect in normal rolling shutter mode by simply choosing a longer exposure and timing the flash towards the middle so there's no dramatic advantage to that mode that I can see.

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HermannSW
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:48 pm

v1 has global reset mode (all lines start exposure at the same time), v2 camera does not have such a mode.
jbeale wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:57 pm
..., unless the ONLY light is your flash. But in that case you could get the same effect in normal rolling shutter mode by simply choosing a longer exposure and timing the flash towards the middle so there's no dramatic advantage to that mode that I can see.
That is only an option for slow moving objects. Even in mode 7 reading a line takes 31µs, so 480 lines take 1.5ms. The first and last line will be captured >1.4ms apart, a bullet with 375m/s will fly 525mm in that time. So for fast moving objects only v1 camera with global reset and a very short flash duration can help (I am working on that in Arducam ov5647 thread and this thread for v1 camera). I use 5000lm led and power it completely off in 3-11µs currently.


P.S:
There are new monochrome (<30$) global shutter cameras you can run directly on a Pi via CSI interface, 0.3MP and 1MP. You can see a live demonstration of the 0.3MP camera here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iefuxbx_pIo
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_saNQQACOo, demo of other global shutter camera needing 50$ usb module)

Since Arducam had no access to closed source GPU they had to provide their own driver, similar to raspiraw. But that driver allows to access the cameras via v4l2.

While in discussion with Arducam support wrt FREX global reset mode for Arducam ov5647 camera I have bought, I was offered to get free samples of the new cameras. They have not arrived yet.
⇨https://stamm-wilbrandt.de/en/Raspberry_camera.html

https://github.com/Hermann-SW/Raspberry_v1_camera_global_external_shutter
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/HermannSW/gst-template
https://github.com/Hermann-SW/fork-raspiraw
https://twitter.com/HermannSW

6by9
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Re: Is global shutter available for camera module v2

Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:09 am

HermannSW wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:48 pm
P.S:
There are new monochrome (<30$) global shutter cameras you can run directly on a Pi via CSI interface, 0.3MP and 1MP. You can see a live demonstration of the 0.3MP camera here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iefuxbx_pIo
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_saNQQACOo, demo of other global shutter camera needing 50$ usb module)

Since Arducam had no access to closed source GPU they had to provide their own driver, similar to raspiraw. But that driver allows to access the cameras via v4l2.

While in discussion with Arducam support wrt FREX global reset mode for Arducam ov5647 camera I have bought, I was offered to get free samples of the new cameras. They have not arrived yet.
I'm not sure quite what they've done there, but for OV7251 they just need to build and provide DT coniguration for the driver that is in the mainline kernel - https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest ... c/ov7251.c.

A couple of minutes with a hex editor and I think they're merging rawcam and the ISP MMAL components with an I2C register set to configure the sensor. The DT is incomplete, hence their issues with raspistill/vid.
I think they're also in violation of the GPL licence, which may come back to bite them (I'll raise an issue on their Github repo in a minute).

If they want to talk to us to help get it properly supported, then I'm open to discussion. All the bits are in the kernel repo for doing it properly. At the moment they have a support nightmare in rebuilding kernel modules every time the kernel version gets bumped.
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I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

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