pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:06 pm

I was thinking about using the R-? as a passively cooled web-server. I then dived in and bought this case. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2307.....1439.l2649)
Do you think that I could embed a R-? inside, along with a 500gb HDD and two of these SD card readers for website storage and backup.(These ones http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3603.....1439.l2649)
. I hope that I can avoid using any fans, but If I have to, Could I go OTT with delta fans?. ;)

tntexplosivesltd
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Contact: Website

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:52 pm

I don't think you will even need fans at all. The R-Pi looks to run cool enough.

pvgb
Posts: 51
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm

For the processor board I would agree that you probably do not need any cooling. I have a Sheeva Plug device as a local web server, and it is the PSU that gets warm - not the board. ( That is ARM based as well ) You may have to be a bit more careful with the drive - some of them run a bit hotter than I like - it may be possible to treat the case as a giant heatsink. For less capacity you could get an SSD ( and more cost ! and less noise)

It actually takes quite a lot of content to fill web servers ( Unless you are serving lots of media files) - I run my server off an SD card, but there is no video on it.

Be aware that prices of hard drives are high at the moment - the factories in Thailand were flooded recently.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:05 pm

I am a bit cash strapped, as I am only 12 years old, So SSD's are far too expensive for me to afford.
I was not aware of the hard drive heat issue, how much heat is produced?

mobeyduck
Posts: 173
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:42 pm

with extensive use of a hdd they tend to get warm and some will get overheated with no airflow.
Looking at the case, it isn't possible to fit 2 of those card-readers without modding, it fits in the place of the floppy drive. And the page of those readers doesn't show any cabling for the inside and it isn't stated in the advertisement, most of the time those use a usb header on the motherboard and not just an usb port.

The case has a fan inside you could link that to the R-Pi's usb port if im correct the 2 outer connections are for power were the - is left and the + is right but you do good checking it.
wikipedia helps me on that one :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....le:USB.svg
ok i was wrong switched them :(

---
Edit

Oh, a little footnote, the usb gives out about 5v, most fans are specified to work with 12v and then just run half speed with 5v. you might want a ~120mm fan that can run good with 5v (measure before buying :))

obarthelemy
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:50 pm

It's probably cheaper to buy 2 HDDs, and put your website alongside your data on HDD1, and bakup everything to HDD2. SD cards are very slow, too.
My 3.5" 2TB HD eats up 10W. 2.5" HDs take around 2W, sometimes 1. So a laptop HD wouldn't need cooling for sure, a desktop HD might. Your case will be mostly empty though, so I'd try without a fan first, you'll probably be OK, especially if the HD is not in the top slot so that warm air can float away, and there are unobstructed vents on the bottom of the case to let cooler air in. Convection FTW.

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:04 pm

BTW for the SD adapter I will use a 5.25 to 3.5 adapter. The only hard drive I am using is one that my Mac obsessed grandpa gave me, I can only buy £25 gift cards, so my build is very limited.

pupil160
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:06 pm

2nd BTW for mobeyduck, I am using adapters form an old case and a soldering Iorn .

MG2R
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:53 pm

I too would leave the SD-card idea for what it is. SD cards are too expensive for their size and speed. I think you'd be better of with a second hard disk.

As for cooling: the r-pi doesn't require any cooling at all. Neither do SD-cards. With hard drives it depends on which drive you use. In my DIY storage/web/bittorrent/audio server (https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1147 ... 7703943905), I use 2 Western Digital Caviar Green 2TB drives to make a RAID array. These drives run at 30°C max without any cooling. On the other hand I have an Hitachi 1TB drive lying around here somewhere which gets very hot when you're not even putting any load on it.

Keep us posted on how your project goes! If you need any help, feel free to ask!

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:49 am

The only reasoning behind the SD card ides is that I have several 8gb SD cards lying about, collecting dust. The hard drive I am using is my only one. I need to buy the raspi, the other sd card reader and the 5.25 to 3.5 adapter,all for under £50. I wonder where the money I get at Christmas is going... BTW, How many users could the raspi handle?

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:17 am

Also, I just need 5gb max for the webserver, so it turned out cheaper to buy the readers and get busy with a soldering iorn rather than buy another hard drive.

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:41 am

If you are worried about your HDD cooling then buy a 'green' disk or a laptop disk as suggested.
Take a look at http://www.silentpcreview.com/.....page1.html and related articles.
It very much depends on if you live in Alaska or the Sudan, i.e. what your ambient temperature is, and which drive you own.
If you want to run your server 24/7 then I would suggest a green or laptop disk using between 2 & 6 W. It will cost you £1 or £2 per year per watt so green is good for your pocket as well as temperature worries.
Here in the UK I have taken a relaxed view on HDD cooling and have lived to tell the tail.
Go RAID if you are frequently writting data or use something like rsnapshot if its just films and music. I use both but then I worry a lot.
When you make your build then you can run hddtemp from a script and get the script to sound the fire alarm if needed. Or just run the command manually.
My bet is that you will not go much above 30C unless you use the latest, fastest and most expensive (which will be silly when run through USB) or a really old drive.
SDD would be best for power use though, shame about the cost.

bradburts
Posts: 341
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:00 am

Sorry, missed the fact that you have SD cards already.

I would go with a web server using just SD cards.
Get some more thoughts from Obarthelemy but I have not found SD card to be very slow.
Slowish to write maybe.
8Gb is a nice big drive for a simple web server running Wordpress, MediaWiki etc style applications.
If you are serving pictures, films or many albums then you will need a larger drive.
What do you intend to serve with the server?

No idea how many users the RPI will handle. Depends on the application. I run each of my servers from a single core on my Intel Atom. I have a code development server, web server, test server etc. Everything runs nice and fast, users do not seem to phase the single cores.
Ruby on Rails applications run very slow for some reason but I think that is because I am using Apache and fluffed the setup.
All my PHP applications run just fine.
I am guessing that an RPI will be close to a single Atom core?

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:08 pm

I am intending to use my WD Caviar blue drive, would this be ok?
I am unable to get any more drives, as I can not afford them.The planned cost of this build was £75.(can not go overbudget)
PARTS
1xCase £20
1xPI £22.60
2xReader £5.40
3x8GB SD £0.00
IDE to USB £0.00
1x5.25 to 3.5 £4.86
50m CAT5E £6.43
TOTAL £59.27
Note. When I reddem the ebay vouchers that I use to pay for this stuff, I end up only getting £24,
so I have £12 left from my £75 budget. Any ideas?

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:58 pm

The pub.
Sorry forgot that you are 12, paint balling then :)

Looks like you are getting good to go.
I did not see how you were going to talk to your HDD. You will need something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00.....B000LRZG88
You will need a 3.5" version if you have a 3.5" HDD.
Also make sure that the enclosure you buy has an external PSU. I am being lazy and have not checked.

Do you have a USB hub? You will need a powered USB hub for about £5.
So I have added about £10 but you can save £20 on the case.

I would ditch the £20 case and convert an old toaster, old laptop or something. All you are looking for is a mechanical case for protection. Literally anything will do if you can get someone to help drill the holes. Usually the metal is so soft you don't even need to drill, punch a nail and then screw in.
Can you imagine an RPI toaster server? You could fit CD or SD drives where the toast goes.
You will just need some mounting pillars which you may get for free from your local PC repair shop. Remove & don't use the mains then you're safe.
Just an idea but it could be so cool (& cheaper).

Good luck.

PS:
Or a lego case. Once you have the shape you may want to glue most of the bricks except the lid.

WASD
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:28 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:00 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 12:08
1xCase £20
50m CAT5E £6.43
CAT5E is made for gigabit speeds, RPi only has a 100mbit network card. So you can buy a cheaper cable.

Also, build your own case :D

mobeyduck
Posts: 173
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:10 pm

I think you might be forgetting the power for your hdd since its a 3,5" it cant be powered over usb so you would need it to get power from either a psu thats in the case, but the fanless psu's cost way to much to just just 1 molex connection.
One from an external case can be used those have there own power adapter youll end up with having 2 usb to ide adapters tough

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:13 pm

The Ide To USB used an external power cable to provide power to the drive, So I should be OK
If I need a usb hub, I wm fairly certain that I have one, If not, I will buy one/

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:14 pm

Forgot to add, cat5e is the cheapest I can get,

bradburts
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:07 am

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:23 pm

Great.
OK I see now, you have an old IDE HDD. So assuming that you buy a fully boxed IDE to USB enclosure then all you need is a RPI case, which is tiny.
All these USB peripherals, SD card readers, USB IDE enclosure can be mounted or glued to whatever. They are safe in their own boxes.

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walney
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:00 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 12:08
...
1xPI £22.60
...
so I have £12 left from my £75 budget. Any ideas?

Sorry to disappoint you, but you have forgotten to add packing & postage and *VAT*. Even if you allow as little as £2.40 for P&P, you are then going to have to add another £5 for VAT (payable on the Pi and on the P&P) - so you are down to about £4.60 or less.

:(

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walney
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:06 pm

Quote from pupil160 on December 19, 2011, 13:14
Forgot to add, cat5e is the cheapest I can get,

Saved you some money on the CAT 5 though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50M-.....484293269c

£5.50

:)

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Thanks Walney, saves me some money. Shame about the VAT though.

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walney
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Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:10 pm

If you don't care about case size, here's another one that'll save you a few pounds (and then you can use your ebay vouchers for something else).

http://www.ebuyer.com/108273-c.....-kb-7720bk

pupil160
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:10 pm

Re: Passively Cooled Web-Server

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:14 pm

I have already got the case....(feeling a bit sheepish)

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