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solar3000
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:46 pm

ninjapi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:24 pm
well after trawling through all the posts in this thread it seems pretty clear that the official pi4 case is not fit for purpose and they should stop selling it with immediate effect.

Some litigious types could make this thing cost them serious money if they don't get a handle on it...
I just got off the phone with Mr. Upton. He said he will immediately halt production and issue refunds.
Antikythera

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solar3000
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:53 pm

galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image

Ohhh baby I'm getting that.
I was looking at that one for the pi3, but I wasn't sure if it would fit the 4. and so it seems it won't. I will surly wait for that to hit the states (USA).
Antikythera

ptrdish
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 pm

I had zero luck mucking with firmware and configs, but adding a fan makes a huge difference. I added silent fans to both my PI4's (2G & 4G) last week and the idle-ish temps dropped by 24c and 28c degrees respectively. Now even under heavy load both top out just over 40C over the past week. I've had heatsinks since day one but they didn't help much.

Before and after Noctua 5v silent fan add (case 3D printed, design tweaked from Thingiverse)
Image

Image

Image
Last edited by ptrdish on Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

omikron
Posts: 13
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:30 pm

4K disabled
current Buster

volt=0.8666V
temp=58.0'C (idle x desktop)
temp=65.0'C (1080 video from USB3 pendrive)

Black Galaxy case with airholes on top.
and the tallest square heatsink that fits in case.

But I still have no audio over HDMI.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:40 pm

Left my 4B playing a 10h long 1080p Youtube video in Chromium browser for over 4 hours last night while monitoring temperatures, voltages and throttling bits. Temps peaked at 47C but were around 45C most of the time. CPU was 1.5GHz the whole time, and no thermal or power throttling events were recorded, even though I was using the older 2.5A Pi3 PSU with USB-C adapter (which was also powering 256GB & 500GB SSDs with USB3-SATA3 adapter cables).

  • Raspberry Pi 4B 2GB model.
  • 5.1V/2.5A official Raspberry Pi Universal Power Supply with Volutz brand micro-USB to USB-C adapter.
  • Open sided, 2 layer acrylic case (as previously posted) with a quiet Noctua 40mm 5V fan (no heatsink).
  • July 2019 Buster image written to 256GB SSD with Etcher.
    • /boot on micro SD card
    • / (rootfs) on 256GB SSD
    • /home on 500GB SSD

Note that this isn't a planned configuration. I'm just experimenting with different things to see what happens.
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techjesse
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:52 am

With the Raspberry Pi4B 4GB (I own one :) ) a heatsink is a must and a fan with dissipate the heat quickly so you can have years of fun with this rocking Rasss.... :) Max temps I've seen so far is 36c :)
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RPIgoodSBC
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:05 am

jahboater wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:33 pm
I'm not convinced the Pi4 needs a heat sink most of the time and my Pi4 doesn't seem to throttle, but they do no harm (the passive ones anyway) so I stuck one of these on for fun:

https://thepihut.com/products/al-heat-s ... 30-30-10mm

Its narrower than Pimoroni one mentioned above but heavier and it comes with proper specified 3M-8810 thermal tape. Make sure the fins are aligned vertically.

The tape is important, there have been cases in the past of cheap heat sinks for Pi's with insulating tape!!!!
>jahboater

You are right.
The heatsink of Pimoroni which I own is too tight 40x30x5mm in dimensions on rpi4 and does not have the thermal pad 3M-8810 which in my opinion is the best.
It would have been better 38x28x5mm and 3M-8810 thermal pad.
What they have put on the heatsink is more of an adhesive than a thermal transfer pad.
I show that in the photo...
Above-Pimoroni-heatsink-40x30x5mm-Below-3M-thermal-pad-8810.jpg
Above-Pimoroni-heatsink-40x30x5mm-Below-3M-thermal-pad-8810.jpg (248.14 KiB) Viewed 3317 times
Anyway in my opinion the best thing to use the rpi4 and forget about temperature problems is to use a sandwich-type case like the one in the photo I show ...
Rpi4-case-lego-layers-noctua-fan-and-heatsink.jpg
Rpi4-case-lego-layers-noctua-fan-and-heatsink.jpg (244.73 KiB) Viewed 3317 times
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 3&t=245325

Note:

It is very important that in any case for the raspberry pi the distance between the base of the plate and the box is at least 0.5cm.
I usually use 1cm of separation to be able to pass cables in case it is necessary.
If the base of the plate touches or is too close to the bottom of the box, the temperature rises dramatically.
0.5cm ... 1cm is the best way to avoid overheating the plate by suffocation with the bottom of the box.
The case must have perforations with separations of every 1cm that allow to put inside a fan 4x4cm 8x8cm ... and reposition it in the grid where it is most convenient.

Nypan
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:58 pm

Pi 4B 4GB running LibreELEC atm with a 25x25mm heatsink and a 50mm 5V fan at 3,3V, never past 38C.
Image

MIT70
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:53 pm

PhilE wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:09 am
Hi all,

Following a successful trial with our alpha testers, we are releasing a new firmware build for the USB3 host adapter that should save about 300mW and help the Pi4 to run cooler, which in turn improves performance in compute-intensive tasks.

Download the archive from here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PXwrnh ... sp=sharing
With the zip file on the Pi:

Code: Select all

$ unzip vl805_update_0137a8.zip
$ chmod a+x vl805
$ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_0137a8.bin
$ sudo reboot
The zip file includes the current shipping firmware (013701) in case you want to revert:

Code: Select all

$ sudo ./vl805 -w vl805_fw_013701.bin
$ sudo reboot
By the way, if you run "sudo ./vl805" with no parameters it displays the version of the currently running firmware. Note that this may differ from what's in the EEPROM if you've just reprogrammed it but not rebooted.
I followed Phil's procedure and made a few measurements which verified some improvement.

This was done on a 2GB version in its official case w/o the top and with an 8mm high heatsink. I used the official Pi4 power supply and an up-to-date Buster (Full). I have a solid color background (orange) and was running Chromium looking at Phil's post but otherwise idle AND a shell for running measure_temp. <added> The screen is 1920 x 1200. </added> The WiFi was OFF and a 1000Mb LAN in use. I use a low-end Logitech keyboard-mouse wireless adapter in a USB2 slot and an idle (but formatted) USB3 Flash Drive in a USB3 slot.

The room was warm, about 24C.

Before the F/W upgrade: 64C. After the F/W upgrade: 63C.

Power to the official Pi4 supply was measured at 6 watts, 12 VA, and a power factor of 0.49 to 0.51. These measurements did not change with the F/W change, likely due to the quantization of the power meter (2 watts and 2 VA).

I was surprised that the temperature decrease was only 1C. Others have reported larger decreases.

I was also a bit surprised that the power supply's power factor was so poor. It's a low-power device but as backpackers and aircraft designers say:
"Watch the ounces (grams) and the pounds (kilos) take care of themselves."

Since the temperature decrease was low and there has been loose talk about performance issues, I've reverted to the original Firmware.

GP

pedro.elisio
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:37 am

I connected a brand new RaspI 4 with 4GB and 32GB microSD card and official charger in an official box and after 10 minutes working it show up in the right upper corner of the TV a small red thermometer. The RaspI was very hot. What are your recommendations?
New FW available, remove the top cover of the box, reduce speed by means of configuration, buy heatsink?
Is this cover by waranty if it gets non-functional?
Best Regards,
Pedro Elísio

trlaing
Posts: 103
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 am

After the firmware update, my RPi4 seems to sit around 57-58 deg C when idle (without desktop running). Before it was around 67-68 deg C. Room temperature is around 22 deg C. I bought a the Pimoroni Fan Shim before the firmware update and it was on and off all the time. Now it hardly comes on (set to switch on at 65 deg C).

(RPi4 in Pimoroni Pibow Coupe case with fan shim)

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:46 am

pedro.elisio wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:37 am
I connected a brand new RaspI 4 with 4GB and 32GB microSD card and official charger in an official box and after 10 minutes working it show up in the right upper corner of the TV a small red thermometer. The RaspI was very hot. What are your recommendations?
New FW available, remove the top cover of the box, reduce speed by means of configuration, buy heatsink?
Is this cover by waranty if it gets non-functional?
Best Regards,
Pedro Elísio
Getting hot will not cause the board to fail - if we didn't throttle, they could get very VERY hot before any damage could happen to the chips.

remove top cover of case would be my advice, heatsink would help, fan would help more.
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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 am

galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image
Looks like that's what I need. I just picked up a 1G Pi 4 yesterday along with the official red/white plastic case, did the setup/install and was immediately disappointed/dejected with the chromium browser crashing/stopping/etc. Then I noticed the lil red thermometer on the screen....

from reading this thread is seems there is definitely an overheating/throttling problem with this lil beast. Honestly I'm not sure it's even really usable without major heatsink/fan/liquid nitrogen cooling. :)

arrrrgh!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Blog: http://mansionsofthemind.blogspot.com/
Art: https://www.deviantart.com/kennyc
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jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am

kennyc wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 am
galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image
Looks like that's what I need. I just picked up a 1G Pi 4 yesterday along with the official red/white plastic case, did the setup/install and was immediately disappointed/dejected with the chromium browser crashing/stopping/etc. Then I noticed the lil red thermometer on the screen....

from reading this thread is seems there is definitely an overheating/throttling problem with this lil beast. Honestly I'm not sure it's even really usable without major heatsink/fan/liquid nitrogen cooling. :)

arrrrgh!
The temperature should not be affecting Chromium like that. ie crashing, stoping. It will slow down the system to let it cool down, but not that much. So might be something else wrong there.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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Imperf3kt
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:15 am

Somebody has done a neat review/comparison on the newly released ice tower cooler linked earlier in the thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUXC3886Ic
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

Mikael
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:41 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:15 am
Somebody has done a neat review/comparison on the newly released ice tower cooler linked earlier in the thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyUXC3886Ic
So, looks cool but is completely unnecessary, as expected. While the Pi 4 gets pretty hot, the thermal load is still very low (usually less than 10W for the whole board). This cooler is far too unwieldy, when you can easily stay below the throttling point with a compact case and a fan. It seems to me that you either run the Pi 4 with a large enough heatsink so that you don't need a fan (Flirc, armor case, etc.), or you simply use a fan and no heatsink. The heatsink + fan setups seem pretty pointless. In many cases, the heatsink is probably so small and the thermal interface so bad, that it might even harm thermals to use the heatsink...

For comparison, right now on my desk, I'm running my Pi 4 with a desk USB fan blowing at the board some 10-12 cm away. I'm not using any heatsinks. The room temp is around 23-24 C and I'm running sysbench prime test (same as in the video you linked). The Pi hovers around 56-58 C. Even with a slower spinning fan and more stressful test, I'd still not be throttling.

With the above said, if someone buys the Ice Tower cooler for experimenting with overclocking or because it looks cool, I'd say go for it. :)

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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:25 am

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am
kennyc wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 am
galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image
Looks like that's what I need. I just picked up a 1G Pi 4 yesterday along with the official red/white plastic case, did the setup/install and was immediately disappointed/dejected with the chromium browser crashing/stopping/etc. Then I noticed the lil red thermometer on the screen....

from reading this thread is seems there is definitely an overheating/throttling problem with this lil beast. Honestly I'm not sure it's even really usable without major heatsink/fan/liquid nitrogen cooling. :)

arrrrgh!
The temperature should not be affecting Chromium like that. ie crashing, stoping. It will slow down the system to let it cool down, but not that much. So might be something else wrong there.
Hmmm.... in that case I'm not sure what's going on then... the Gmail page in Chromium seems to crash with an 'Aw, Snap' very often.... I'm watching 'top' and 'task manager' and 'temp' but none of them seem particularly out of line when the browser crashes.... and it's only that one page so that complicates the mystery....

I started a separate thread here: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 8&t=246178
Kenny A. Chaffin
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Mettauk
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am

Seems to me a 25x25x7mm 5v fan is more than enough, or a very large heatsink covering the whole board.
A 3d printable version here https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3717239 inc a TV bonnet version. I have it running at 3.3v soldered to the underside (Risks known) and so far it keeps it between 50 and 65°C with a standard 15x15 ali heatsink on the CPU.
Pi4b_TVcase.jpg
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As humans we have been the same for a very very long time, technology changes how we do... not who we are as people.

FPSychotic
Posts: 18
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:14 pm

pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=61.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo vcgencmd measure_volts
volt=0.9861V
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ uptime
22:08:03 up 8:32, 2 users, load average: 0.48, 0.96, 0.92
pi@raspberrypi:~ $

overclocked 1700mhz and gpu 600

1 day turn on, while compile with -j4, vnc,wifi,bt, cromium,pcmanfm

printed case with no heat sink, 30x30 x1 6v fan normal temp is 45-55C at 22C temp amb

just put a small fan of 1 pound XD

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Mettauk wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:28 am
... and so far it keeps it between 50 and 65°C with a standard 15x15 ali heatsink on the CPU.
Should have tried it without the heatsink.
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kennyc
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am
kennyc wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 am
galicin wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:49 am
I did pre-order this - https://geekworm.com/collections/new-ar ... tive-shell (will share results once I have it).
Image
Looks like that's what I need. I just picked up a 1G Pi 4 yesterday along with the official red/white plastic case, did the setup/install and was immediately disappointed/dejected with the chromium browser crashing/stopping/etc. Then I noticed the lil red thermometer on the screen....

from reading this thread is seems there is definitely an overheating/throttling problem with this lil beast. Honestly I'm not sure it's even really usable without major heatsink/fan/liquid nitrogen cooling. :)

arrrrgh!
The temperature should not be affecting Chromium like that. ie crashing, stoping. It will slow down the system to let it cool down, but not that much. So might be something else wrong there.
Yeah, I'm beginning to think something else is going on.... With the top off the case (no heatsink or fan) it seems to be running lower in temp, but still getting crashes on Gmail , google news etc.... may just be pushing the l'il beast too hard....

Still though, I'm very impressed with how well it works for a $25 computer! Way better than my Wire-Wrapped S-100 8080 CP/M system from back in the day. LOL!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Blog: http://mansionsofthemind.blogspot.com/
Art: https://www.deviantart.com/kennyc
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

Longreen
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:34 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:37 am

ptrdish wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 pm
I had zero luck mucking with firmware and configs, but adding a fan makes a huge difference. I added silent fans to both my PI4's (2G & 4G) last week and the idle-ish temps dropped by 24c and 28c degrees respectively. Now even under heavy load both top out just over 40C over the past week. I've had heatsinks since day one but they didn't help much.

Before and after Noctua 5v silent fan add (case 3D printed, design tweaked from Thingiverse)
Image

Image

Image
Hi that is cool ! Literally:-)

Can you please let me know the files for that 3d case you modded ?

Also what Noctua fan is that ?

Thank You !

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:50 am

kennyc wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am
kennyc wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:21 am


Looks like that's what I need. I just picked up a 1G Pi 4 yesterday along with the official red/white plastic case, did the setup/install and was immediately disappointed/dejected with the chromium browser crashing/stopping/etc. Then I noticed the lil red thermometer on the screen....

from reading this thread is seems there is definitely an overheating/throttling problem with this lil beast. Honestly I'm not sure it's even really usable without major heatsink/fan/liquid nitrogen cooling. :)

arrrrgh!
The temperature should not be affecting Chromium like that. ie crashing, stoping. It will slow down the system to let it cool down, but not that much. So might be something else wrong there.
Yeah, I'm beginning to think something else is going on.... With the top off the case (no heatsink or fan) it seems to be running lower in temp, but still getting crashes on Gmail , google news etc.... may just be pushing the l'il beast too hard....

Still though, I'm very impressed with how well it works for a $25 computer! Way better than my Wire-Wrapped S-100 8080 CP/M system from back in the day. LOL!
Pushing it (unless you are overclocking) shouldn't make it more prone to crashing.
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kennyc
Posts: 74
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:52 am

ptrdish wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:06 pm
I had zero luck mucking with firmware and configs, but adding a fan makes a huge difference. I added silent fans to both my PI4's (2G & 4G) last week and the idle-ish temps dropped by 24c and 28c degrees respectively. Now even under heavy load both top out just over 40C over the past week. I've had heatsinks since day one but they didn't help much.

Before and after Noctua 5v silent fan add (case 3D printed, design tweaked from Thingiverse)
Image

Image

Image
Excellent! Thanks for that. I've got heat sinks and fans on the way. :)
Kenny A. Chaffin
Blog: http://mansionsofthemind.blogspot.com/
Art: https://www.deviantart.com/kennyc
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

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kennyc
Posts: 74
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 temperature

Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:56 am

jamesh wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:50 am
kennyc wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:54 am


The temperature should not be affecting Chromium like that. ie crashing, stoping. It will slow down the system to let it cool down, but not that much. So might be something else wrong there.
Yeah, I'm beginning to think something else is going on.... With the top off the case (no heatsink or fan) it seems to be running lower in temp, but still getting crashes on Gmail , google news etc.... may just be pushing the l'il beast too hard....

Still though, I'm very impressed with how well it works for a $25 computer! Way better than my Wire-Wrapped S-100 8080 CP/M system from back in the day. LOL!
Pushing it (unless you are overclocking) shouldn't make it more prone to crashing.
Thanks James!!! Continuing to test/evaluate. In another thread someone mentioned a possible issue with the Chromium browser cache and images.... that's possibly the problem ... also I'm thinking it might be the 'cheap' micro SD card (freebie from Micro Center)?? ... and or heat related... it doesn't seem to be the memory and with the top off the case it is running without throttling that I can see...

have fans/heatsinks on the way as well as a Pi 4 4Gb :) and a faster memory card....

I'm lovin' playing around with this li'l beast! :)
Kenny A. Chaffin
Blog: http://mansionsofthemind.blogspot.com/
Art: https://www.deviantart.com/kennyc
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama

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