SwampieUK
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:35 pm

Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:15 pm

I have 5 Raspberry Pi 2 devices which were running Windows IoT (10.0.10586.0). When 10.0.10586.63 came out via Windows Update, of the 5 which tried updating to .63, one of them consistently fails to apply the update successfully. Four of the devices took 25 minutes to apply .63, but after about 10 minutes of the turning gears this one would show a sad face screen :-( and reboot. The gears would then appear and in a few seconds show the sad face :-( again. It would then repeatedly blink the green Activity LED 7 times in a sequence. Consequently the OS on the SD card would never recover, the only solution would be to re-image the SD card back to .0. It would later detect .63, and repeat the whole thing again, failing again in the same way.

Different SD cards made no difference, this specific Pi always failed to update to .63, however it would run .63 if the SD was updated by a different Pi and then put into it, which was how I worked around it. Now, I don’t know what’s different about this Pi, it was one of 4 bought this month at the same time. One thing I do recall is that one of the new 4 devices (I don’t know which), I installed the very lastest Raspbian Jessie (onto a different SD card), whereas all the other devices here have only ever run Windows IoT. I don’t know if Jessie updated the firmware of the Pi or made any other changes to it (or even if it’s the same Pi which is failing) – but that’s the only thing I can think of to explain why 1 Pi would consistently fail to apply .63, yet otherwise run Windows IoT fine. Maybe the IoT releases haven't been tested with any later firmware, or maybe Jessie didn't do anything special to that Pi and it's something completely different.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Is there somewhere better that I should report this issue? Is it related to just going from .0 to .63, or could it occur on all future Windows Updates?

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:44 pm

SwampieUK wrote:I have 5 Raspberry Pi 2 devices which were running Windows IoT (10.0.10586.0). When 10.0.10586.63 came out via Windows Update, of the 5 which tried updating to .63, one of them consistently fails to apply the update successfully. Four of the devices took 25 minutes to apply .63, but after about 10 minutes of the turning gears this one would show a sad face screen :-( and reboot. The gears would then appear and in a few seconds show the sad face :-( again. It would then repeatedly blink the green Activity LED 7 times in a sequence. Consequently the OS on the SD card would never recover, the only solution would be to re-image the SD card back to .0. It would later detect .63, and repeat the whole thing again, failing again in the same way.

Different SD cards made no difference, this specific Pi always failed to update to .63, however it would run .63 if the SD was updated by a different Pi and then put into it, which was how I worked around it. Now, I don’t know what’s different about this Pi, it was one of 4 bought this month at the same time. One thing I do recall is that one of the new 4 devices (I don’t know which), I installed the very lastest Raspbian Jessie (onto a different SD card), whereas all the other devices here have only ever run Windows IoT. I don’t know if Jessie updated the firmware of the Pi or made any other changes to it (or even if it’s the same Pi which is failing) – but that’s the only thing I can think of to explain why 1 Pi would consistently fail to apply .63, yet otherwise run Windows IoT fine. Maybe the IoT releases haven't been tested with any later firmware, or maybe Jessie didn't do anything special to that Pi and it's something completely different.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Is there somewhere better that I should report this issue? Is it related to just going from .0 to .63, or could it occur on all future Windows Updates?
That sad face is a BSOD

ricl
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:55 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:59 pm

Oops . sorry
Last edited by ricl on Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

ricl
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:55 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:00 pm

SwampieUK wrote:I have 5 Raspberry Pi 2 devices which were running Windows IoT (10.0.10586.0). When 10.0.10586.63 came out via Windows Update, of the 5 which tried updating to .63, one of them consistently fails to apply the update successfully. Four of the devices took 25 minutes to apply .63, but after about 10 minutes of the turning gears this one would show a sad face screen :-( and reboot. The gears would then appear and in a few seconds show the sad face :-( again. It would then repeatedly blink the green Activity LED 7 times in a sequence. Consequently the OS on the SD card would never recover, the only solution would be to re-image the SD card back to .0. It would later detect .63, and repeat the whole thing again, failing again in the same way.

Different SD cards made no difference, this specific Pi always failed to update to .63, however it would run .63 if the SD was updated by a different Pi and then put into it, which was how I worked around it. Now, I don’t know what’s different about this Pi, it was one of 4 bought this month at the same time. One thing I do recall is that one of the new 4 devices (I don’t know which), I installed the very lastest Raspbian Jessie (onto a different SD card), whereas all the other devices here have only ever run Windows IoT. I don’t know if Jessie updated the firmware of the Pi or made any other changes to it (or even if it’s the same Pi which is failing) – but that’s the only thing I can think of to explain why 1 Pi would consistently fail to apply .63, yet otherwise run Windows IoT fine. Maybe the IoT releases haven't been tested with any later firmware, or maybe Jessie didn't do anything special to that Pi and it's something completely different.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Is there somewhere better that I should report this issue? Is it related to just going from .0 to .63, or could it occur on all future Windows Updates?
If you can tie it down that well I am sure MS would love to know over on the MS IoT site.
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

mimi123
Posts: 583
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:38 am

SwampieUK wrote:I have 5 Raspberry Pi 2 devices which were running Windows IoT (10.0.10586.0). When 10.0.10586.63 came out via Windows Update, of the 5 which tried updating to .63, one of them consistently fails to apply the update successfully. Four of the devices took 25 minutes to apply .63, but after about 10 minutes of the turning gears this one would show a sad face screen :-( and reboot. The gears would then appear and in a few seconds show the sad face :-( again. It would then repeatedly blink the green Activity LED 7 times in a sequence. Consequently the OS on the SD card would never recover, the only solution would be to re-image the SD card back to .0. It would later detect .63, and repeat the whole thing again, failing again in the same way.

Different SD cards made no difference, this specific Pi always failed to update to .63, however it would run .63 if the SD was updated by a different Pi and then put into it, which was how I worked around it. Now, I don’t know what’s different about this Pi, it was one of 4 bought this month at the same time. One thing I do recall is that one of the new 4 devices (I don’t know which), I installed the very lastest Raspbian Jessie (onto a different SD card), whereas all the other devices here have only ever run Windows IoT. I don’t know if Jessie updated the firmware of the Pi or made any other changes to it (or even if it’s the same Pi which is failing) – but that’s the only thing I can think of to explain why 1 Pi would consistently fail to apply .63, yet otherwise run Windows IoT fine. Maybe the IoT releases haven't been tested with any later firmware, or maybe Jessie didn't do anything special to that Pi and it's something completely different.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Is there somewhere better that I should report this issue? Is it related to just going from .0 to .63, or could it occur on all future Windows Updates?
The firmware is in the OTP, no OS can update it

selom
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:56 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:02 pm

I have something similar. It will install and run on my pi for a while, then one day after restarting spinning gears and sad face.
The only fix is reflashing the image back to the sd card.

ricl
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:55 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:52 pm

The usual comment from Linux applies here. Check your power supplies. Unless (and even if ) you BSOD IoT the card will not suffer any problems in the same way that Linux does not suffer any problems and for the same reasons. The hardware is identical.
ricl : F/gamma = ma : Law ii(a) : https://climatedatablog.wordpress.com/2016/01/02/an-energy-challenge-2016/ #AnEnergyChallenge2016

j_hoppe
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:04 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:11 am

Exactly the same for me: gears and sad face and switching off.

One idea: perhaps a bad SDcard?
This would explain why one system run and others crashed.
And I once copied a RPi Raspian system card with "dd" on a Linux system, which didn't run.
Switching the card did solve the problem in this case.

Joerg

hakanl
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:53 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:13 am

I hate to post another "me too" message, but yes, something similar happened to me too. I got a RPi2 for WinIoT from Microsoft, and it works fine with the 10.0.10586.0 OS, but if I let it sit for a few hours it will say there's an update and I can do the reboot. Once I got the sad face (BSOD) after the upgrade, so I re-flashed .0 into the SD and went through it again. I had a PiFace hat on the RPi. When it had rebooted (after applying the update to .63 again) it got stuck in "Please wait while we get things ready", and been sitting like that for a day now. However I can actually access the 8080 web server on it. I've also tried to remove the PiFace and it makes no difference. This is the RPi2 that Microsoft supplies, using the Belkin power supply and SD card that was in the box. I haven't tried it on a different RPi yet, but just wanted to add my observations as well.
I've searched a little for a fresh .63 image that I can flash instead of .0, any ideas?

j_hoppe
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:04 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:19 am

Sorry for this stupid "check your SDcard" post ... didn't read your mail carefully.

I also tried to find a fresh *.63 image to flash ... no success.

Now I disabled the update service and hope this prevents the *.63 update until something more stable is available.

Type this into the RPI shell:

sc query wuauserv
sc stop wuauserv
sc config wuauserv start=disabled
shutdown -r
... wait & reconnect ...
sc query wuauserv

ossandust
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:56 pm

Interesting info on how to disable automatic updates, thanks for that. However I wonder if this will stay possible in future versions, since Microsoft seems to base its commercial model on those auto-updates (and whichever functionality they will force upon the Win10 IoT user in the future). I was planning to work on a product based on Win10 IoT, however I changed my mind after the introduction of auto-updates, exactly because I feared the type of scenarios which are now being reported. Imagine this would happen on a wide spread commercial product...

hakanl
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:53 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:37 am

According to a Microsoft source the pro edition of Win10 IoT will let you control the windows updates, it's just for the free edition that you won't have the choice. Obviously you wouldn't use the free version for a commercial product.
Also we're fairly early on the stability of the IoT platform, especially on RPi, I personally expect these updates to be rather smooth in the future, much like windows updates for Windows 10 desktop are today. What was the last time you had a BSOD on a Win10 machine due to Windows updates? And the hardware options will be a lot more limited on IoT, so more easily tested by MSFT (compare to iOS for example).

dobova86
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:32 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:11 pm

I've installed .63 when Win Update was ready to install and my Win 10586.63 Iot is running fine after update.
Probably something is causing the problem .. may be some parameter changes in config file ?

ossandust
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:38 pm

hakanl wrote:Obviously you wouldn't use the free version for a commercial product.
To be honest I don't see what's obvious about that. There seems to be a whole lot of commercial products based on a free operating system today...
But agreed that we are still fairly early on stability and feature set of this Windows IoT platform, so I will definitely check back later on. I have no problem paying a fee for a stable and full featured OS - when that time comes.

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 21633
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:53 pm

Retired disgracefully.....
......to a more gentile life !

hakanl
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:53 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:24 pm

ossandust wrote:
hakanl wrote:Obviously you wouldn't use the free version for a commercial product.
To be honest I don't see what's obvious about that. There seems to be a whole lot of commercial products based on a free operating system today...
But agreed that we are still fairly early on stability and feature set of this Windows IoT platform, so I will definitely check back later on. I have no problem paying a fee for a stable and full featured OS - when that time comes.
To me it was obvious because Windows isn't open source. The key wasn't that you couldn't build a commercial product on free software (which obviously has been done ;) ), the key was that you can't (or shouldn't) build a commercial product on closed-source free software (it's probably also against their license terms).

ossandust
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:49 pm

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:43 pm

hakanl wrote:you can't (or shouldn't) build a commercial product on closed-source free software (it's probably also against their license terms).
Microsoft seems to indicate the contrary on their page about commercialization of IoT Core based devices :
"There are two paths to commercialize Windows 10 IoT Core today. Both allow you to use Windows 10 IoT Core software for commercial purposes"

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 21633
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:59 pm

ossandust wrote:
hakanl wrote:you can't (or shouldn't) build a commercial product on closed-source free software (it's probably also against their license terms).
Microsoft seems to indicate the contrary on their page about commercialization of IoT Core based devices :
"There are two paths to commercialize Windows 10 IoT Core today. Both allow you to use Windows 10 IoT Core software for commercial purposes"

https://www.windowsforiotdevices.com

Option 1 T&C's

https://www.windowsforiotdevices.com/Co ... 0Image.pdf
Retired disgracefully.....
......to a more gentile life !

hakanl
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:53 am

Re: Issues with Window Update to 10.0.10586.63

Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:10 pm

ok, I didn't actually look into the terms, I was just expressing that from my perspective I wouldn't do it on the free version. But since there are two paths it should be good for everybody. Thanks for clarifying.

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