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Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:15 pm
by winPiBoy
Does anyone know if there are any plans to get Windows IoT running on the latest Raspberry Pi, the Pi Zero? It seems like the Pi Zero is using an older chip.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:01 am
by elatllat
highly unlikely.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:22 am
by DougieLawson
Can't be done. The WinIoT stuff won't run on the Zero's ARM6 processor. It must have the ARM7 on the 2B.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:29 am
by winPiBoy
Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I might have to wait until the Zero 2 has the ARM7 chip.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:49 am
by DougieLawson
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I might have to wait until the Zero 2 has the ARM7 chip.
You could have a long wait. Stick your hand in your pocket, pull out $35 and buy a 2B.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:53 am
by winPiBoy
[Mod: sarcasm deleted - please be pleasant to other users.] I have plenty of Raspberry Pi 2s FYI. It's for a product and the difference between $5 and $35 for a product is a big deal.
DougieLawson wrote:
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I might have to wait until the Zero 2 has the ARM7 chip.
You could have a long wait. Stick your hand in your pocket, pull out $35 and buy a 2B.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:58 am
by mikronauts
1) If I were you, I'd ask MS what the eventual per unit license fees will be for WinIoT.

2) Designing a product around a non-existent product, which may never exist, is not particularly a good thing to do.

3) Use Raspbian and you can use the $5 Pi Zero's (when available) with no concern about license fees

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:02 am
by winPiBoy
Thanks for the suggestions @mikronauts.

1) Yep, good point.
2) Agreed, just doing R&D right now.
3) Agreed. This is what we've been thinking. I think this will be the best path. Just hate that Raspbian is so slow on the Zero.
mikronauts wrote:1) If I were you, I'd ask MS what the eventual per unit license fees will be for WinIoT.

2) Designing a product around a non-existent product, which may never exist, is not particularly a good thing to do.

3) Use Raspbian and you can use the $5 Pi Zero's (when available) with no concern about license fees

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:09 am
by mikronauts
You are most welcome.

There are quite a few alternatives to a full Raspbian, which may work better for your application.

Of course, this all depends on what your app needs from the underlying OS.

Take a peek at
They may suit your needs better than a full Raspbian install.

Having said that, if your company is mainly an MS shop, Win10IoT may save you enough on devlopment costs to justify the RPi2 price differential, and the eventual Win10IoT license cost. It depends on development, deployment, support etc other costs and also on weather the end product has enough margin to cover the cost differential. The RPi2 is also a lot faster.
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the suggestions @mikronauts.

1) Yep, good point.
2) Agreed, just doing R&D right now.
3) Agreed. This is what we've been thinking. I think this will be the best path. Just hate that Raspbian is so slow on the Zero.
mikronauts wrote:1) If I were you, I'd ask MS what the eventual per unit license fees will be for WinIoT.

2) Designing a product around a non-existent product, which may never exist, is not particularly a good thing to do.

3) Use Raspbian and you can use the $5 Pi Zero's (when available) with no concern about license fees

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:59 am
by winPiBoy
Thanks again. DietPi looks interesting. I'll take it for a spin on the Zero and check it out.
mikronauts wrote:You are most welcome.

There are quite a few alternatives to a full Raspbian, which may work better for your application.

Of course, this all depends on what your app needs from the underlying OS.

Take a peek at
They may suit your needs better than a full Raspbian install.

Having said that, if your company is mainly an MS shop, Win10IoT may save you enough on devlopment costs to justify the RPi2 price differential, and the eventual Win10IoT license cost. It depends on development, deployment, support etc other costs and also on weather the end product has enough margin to cover the cost differential. The RPi2 is also a lot faster.
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the suggestions @mikronauts.

1) Yep, good point.
2) Agreed, just doing R&D right now.
3) Agreed. This is what we've been thinking. I think this will be the best path. Just hate that Raspbian is so slow on the Zero.
mikronauts wrote:1) If I were you, I'd ask MS what the eventual per unit license fees will be for WinIoT.

2) Designing a product around a non-existent product, which may never exist, is not particularly a good thing to do.

3) Use Raspbian and you can use the $5 Pi Zero's (when available) with no concern about license fees

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:06 am
by fruitoftheloom

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:22 am
by mikronauts
Thanks for the link fruitoftheloom.

Made for an interesting read - the "free" version will be charged for every unit you disable reporting to the mothership and/or auto updates for, however the charge is fairly reasonable.

The "Pro" version allows you to disable things, however you must pay a per-unit license fee.

I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:27 am
by fruitoftheloom
mikronauts wrote:Thanks for the link fruitoftheloom.

Made for an interesting read - the "free" version will be charged for every unit you disable reporting to the mothership and/or auto updates for, however the charge is fairly reasonable.

The "Pro" version allows you to disable things, however you must pay a per-unit license fee.

I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.
MS want you in their "family", and many people are happy with that...

This is no different to Google, Amazon, Canonical etcetera, each to their own :D

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:22 am
by ricl
Not many of those have quite so much of the code on githib though

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:08 am
by winPiBoy
Thanks for sharing. From what I read, option 1 allows you to use Win IoT for commercial purposes without any fees as long as you keep it connected to the internet and allow auto-updates. Is that how you interpret it as well?
fruitoftheloom wrote:
mikronauts wrote:Thanks for the link fruitoftheloom.

Made for an interesting read - the "free" version will be charged for every unit you disable reporting to the mothership and/or auto updates for, however the charge is fairly reasonable.

The "Pro" version allows you to disable things, however you must pay a per-unit license fee.

I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.
MS want you in their "family", and many people are happy with that...

This is no different to Google, Amazon, Canonical etcetera, each to their own :D

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:52 am
by mimi123
On a Pi0 you can use Windows Embedded Compact 7.
Windows 7 ran on ARMv6, at least on the Tegra APX2500, which was an ARM11 :) but MS didn't release it...(I think that a Windows 10 ARM port won't take much, as it's forward-porting from Win7)

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:58 pm
by mikronauts
It is more than "each to their own"

Consulting customers have had me do security analysis of their internal networks, and they would literally have a cow for allowing a device onto their network that phoned home and autonomously installed "updates". Think BIG industrial clients, not small business.

Working in the past as a research analyst in industrial security at BCIT also influences my outlook.
fruitoftheloom wrote:
mikronauts wrote: I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.
MS want you in their "family", and many people are happy with that...

This is no different to Google, Amazon, Canonical etcetera, each to their own :D

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:10 pm
by fruitoftheloom
mikronauts wrote:It is more than "each to their own"

Consulting customers have had me do security analysis of their internal networks, and they would literally have a cow for allowing a device onto their network that phoned home and autonomously installed "updates". Think BIG industrial clients, not small business.

Working in the past as a research analyst in industrial security at BCIT also influences my outlook.
fruitoftheloom wrote:
mikronauts wrote: I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.
MS want you in their "family", and many people are happy with that...

This is no different to Google, Amazon, Canonical etcetera, each to their own :D
I only said that because otherwise poster ricl will get upset and start badgering my comments, I do understand and appreciate your response....

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:24 pm
by hippy
mikronauts wrote:I'd have a difficult time selling Win10IoT non-pro to my customers, they would flip out at the auto-update and auto-reporting.
For those customers the non-pro option is not for them. Others will have customers who would prefer not to take on the burden of having to manage security fixes and updates with numerous deployed devices and would prefer that all to be handled via automatic updates by the deployed devices themselves. There are pro's and con's to each option, which is presumably why Microsoft offer both, and customers can choose which suits them best.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:06 pm
by ricl
"I only said that because otherwise poster ricl will get upset and start badgering my comments"

hmmmm.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:00 am
by fruitoftheloom
ricl wrote:"I only said that because otherwise poster ricl will get upset and start badgering my comments"

hmmmm.
You forgot to add QOUTE so other readers know that you are responding to an earlier post in this thread :shock:

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:04 am
by jamesh
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the suggestions @mikronauts.

1) Yep, good point.
2) Agreed, just doing R&D right now.
3) Agreed. This is what we've been thinking. I think this will be the best path. Just hate that Raspbian is so slow on the Zero.
Why do you think 10Iot would be any faster than Raspbian? Same SoC.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:11 am
by winPiBoy
10IoT feels much lighter because there isn't much running or installed with the default image. But we won't know for sure since you can't do it, could be that is just as slow as you imply. :)
jamesh wrote:
winPiBoy wrote:Thanks for the suggestions @mikronauts.

1) Yep, good point.
2) Agreed, just doing R&D right now.
3) Agreed. This is what we've been thinking. I think this will be the best path. Just hate that Raspbian is so slow on the Zero.
Why do you think 10Iot would be any faster than Raspbian? Same SoC.

Re: Windows IoT on Pi Zero

Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:27 pm
by ricl
"You forgot to add QOUTE so other readers know that you are responding to an earlier post in this thread :shock:"

I try to keep the number of lines on a page to manageable sizes. That's why my sig is one line.

Whilst we are at it.

Try https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history for the work I did on Z180s, back in the day.