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Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:25 am
by MattRichardson
Because I've been on the floor at the Microsoft Build Conference, I haven't had a chance to try out Windows 10 IoT Core for Raspberry Pi yet. But I do want to share a guide that my friends at Make: have posted for first steps with the new OS: http://makezine.com/2015/04/30/windows- ... erry-pi-2/

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 7:04 am
by Heater
MattRichardson,

From the article you linked to above:

"Microsoft’s Terry Myerson announced their intention to bring the Windows 10 app platform to 1 billion devices by next year. Getting Windows on Raspberry Pi 2 is a big step toward making that real."

As a foundation employee and forum moderator perhaps you could do me the honour of answering a simple question:

Why is the Raspberry Pi Foundation, a charitable institution, providing support and advertising to a very wealthy muti-national corporation?

I am somewhat nonplussed by this move as it seems to be counter to the educational mission statement of the foundation. Further it seems to run against the very charitable status of the foundation, using charitable donations to offer succour to a for profit corporation.

I do realize that this debate is not wanted here, I have already asked once with the result that my post was silently deleted and the warning we now see here went up. That is fair enough but I would appreciate some explaination via some channel.

Thank you.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:37 am
by jamesh
Heater wrote:MattRichardson,

From the article you linked to above:

"Microsoft’s Terry Myerson announced their intention to bring the Windows 10 app platform to 1 billion devices by next year. Getting Windows on Raspberry Pi 2 is a big step toward making that real."

As a foundation employee and forum moderator perhaps you could do me the honour of answering a simple question:

Why is the Raspberry Pi Foundation, a charitable institution, providing support and advertising to a very wealthy muti-national corporation?

I am somewhat nonplussed by this move as it seems to be counter to the educational mission statement of the foundation. Further it seems to run against the very charitable status of the foundation, using charitable donations to offer succour to a for profit corporation.

I do realize that this debate is not wanted here, I have already asked once with the result that my post was silently deleted and the warning we now see here went up. That is fair enough but I would appreciate some explaination via some channel.

Thank you.

Correct, not wanted here.

Note that the Foundation gives very little support to Microsoft, and the Raspberry Pi is an open platform - anyone can use it. The fact that MS is a for profit company is pretty irrelevant, there are a number of people/companies who post on this forum, or have been blogged about that are for profit. Being a for profit is not the end of the world. As for this countering the educational aims of the Foundation - how? It's not replacing anything, it's not stopping the Foundation continuing with their support of teachers, training, OSS. It's simply an addition to the raft of features available on the Raspberry Pi. It may even results in higher sales, the profits from which are ploughed back in to education. I see it as a win win situation - little effort by the Foundation, possibly greater sales, more press, more choice. It's not the Foundation providing succour to a for profit, it's a for profit spending money on making a charitable product better.

Linux will continue to be the OS of choice for education - there are a lot of applications that require it that are GREAT for education - SonicPi, MinecraftPi, Scratch, endless programming languages etc. It's not going away!

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:17 am
by Heater
Thank you for that James.

There is a lot there I'd love to discuss of course but, as you wish, another time, another place.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:07 am
by clive
It's not that the debate isn't wanted. I like debate :). It's just that debate based on misinformation and misunderstanding is not at a debate at all. Statements such as "it seems to be counter to the educational mission statement of the foundation" and "it seems to run against the very charitable status of the foundation" [my emphasis] are not based in fact. Actually, as James has explained, it's quite the opposite. The Foundation answers to a Board of Trustees and the Charity Commission and we do things above board and in the open, and always with our mission in mind.

The other problem with "debates"of this sort is that a surprising number of people find it impossible to discuss Microsoft objectively. They can get very emotional and irrational and it rarely ends well. (I mean - some people still refer to Microsoft as "M$" (because, you know, they make money and like .... dollars). Hard to believe, I know! ;)) I make no apology for us managing the forums to stop flaming, personal attacks and bad feeling (not referring to you BTW Heater, just generally).

Clive

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:34 am
by Heater
Clive,

I'm up for debate too. I'd love to explain why my statements are facts rather than misinformation or misunderstanding. I should have said "is" rather than the more timorous "seems". Oh and this has nothing to do with MS specifically.

We are not going to have that debate here. I have no idea where though. Perhaps you are up for a beer in Cambridge one day...

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:57 am
by MattRichardson
Heater wrote:I am somewhat nonplussed by this move as it seems to be counter to the educational mission statement of the foundation. Further it seems to run against the very charitable status of the foundation, using charitable donations to offer succour to a for profit corporation.
First I want to echo Clive's response to these statements. James is also right to point out that there are plenty of for-profit companies that make use of Raspberry Pi and you'll find us occasionally touting that. If a company brings something new and interesting to the table, if they innovate with Raspberry Pi, if they bring a whole new community of developers to our hardware, if they adapt their own tools to work with our hardware then I don't think it makes a good practice to turn our backs on that.

When it comes to different ways to use Raspberry Pi, I think more is better.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:07 am
by Heater
Thanks for responding Matt. Let's leave it there.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:18 am
by ame
I agree. It's great to see Microsoft embrace the Raspberry Pi. And this is merely the first step. I am sure they will go on to extend the Pi ecosystem significantly. After that, who knows what might happen?

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:25 am
by Heater
ame,

Hmm...bites lip...I will not be drawn...

Happy May day everybody.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:34 am
by DougieLawson
ame wrote:I agree. It's great to see Microsoft embrace the Raspberry Pi. And this is merely the first step. I am sure they will go on to extend the Pi ecosystem significantly. After that, who knows what might happen?
This is the way we should all be looking at Microsoft. Anything that extends the use of our favourite SBCs can only be a good thing. It can only help to push the Foundation towards RPi3B and CM2 or CM3 along with ARM8 and 64-bit.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:46 am
by Heater
I was kind of day dreaming that the Pi 3 would be a 64 bit bit RISC V device.

After all LowRISC is another non-profit organization based in Cambridge with I believe some connection with Broadcom. http://www.lowrisc.org/about/

But hey, way off topic.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:51 am
by panik
ame wrote:I am sure they will go on to extend the Pi ecosystem significantly.
That's exactly the thing. It's not a extension to the Pi ecosystem. For now it's only an extension to the Windows 10 ecosystem. That's fine, but it's sold to us as if Microsoft doing us a favour. "Windows 10 for Raspberry Pi" is actually "Raspberry Pi for Windows 10".
ame wrote:After that, who knows what might happen?
In the past, this was their internal strategy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_e ... extinguish. Hopefully things have changed. We'll see, but a lot of people are still itchy on the subject.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:05 pm
by DougieLawson
panik wrote: In the past, this was their internal strategy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_e ... extinguish. Hopefully things have changed. We'll see, but a lot of people are still itchy on the subject.
There's nothing that says you MUST run Win10 on your RPi. They won't extinguish the Linux, FreeBSD, RISCOS users. They won't have any effect on the millions of model Bs out there.

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:10 pm
by fruitoftheloom
DougieLawson wrote:
panik wrote: In the past, this was their internal strategy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_e ... extinguish. Hopefully things have changed. We'll see, but a lot of people are still itchy on the subject.
There's nothing that says you MUST run Win10 on your RPi. They won't extinguish the Linux, FreeBSD, RISCOS users. They won't have any effect on the millions of model Bs out there.
+1 word of the day is CHOICE :shock:

Re: Make's Tips and Tricks for Using Windows 10 IoT Core

Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:11 pm
by liz
But hey, way off topic.
Too right. Thread closed. Can we try to keep on topic please?