My thought is to ask why one would want to spend ones time supporting a closed source operating system from one of the worlds richest companies for free?Anyway I'm willing to donate some time to the project, if others are interested in doing the same. Thoughts?
Redkey wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:44 pmI've been investigating installing Windows 10 IOT core on the newest RP4. I have it working well with a RP3 b and I can develop remotely with VS2019 (community edition). I'm able to Program in C# which is what I'm interested in at the moment. Obviously I wish I could update to the latest RP4. I've been researching and it seems like Microsoft gave the community a working version of IOT core for the earlier version of the RP and gave us the ability to migrate with a Board Support Package (BSP) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... -a-new-bsp. I'm guessing that for some of the updates it would be about looking at what has changed in the Raspian files and somehow reflecting those changes in a BSP. The onboard Memory(RAM) might be a new kettle of fish.
Also I noticed that for the last version that Microsoft had working well(RS3B), there was a complete data sheet For the Broadcom part. Maybe getting microsoft to provide an update might be as simple as providing Microsoft with updated documentation, however there may be some NDA issues with Broadcom/raspberrypi.org.
My programming skills are not super strong. Most of my career I did assembly programming for Microchips products, More recently Some C, C++ and C #, the latter in VS2019.
Anyway I'm willing to donate some time to the project, if others are interested in doing the same. Thoughts?
Redkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:46 pmI did give this some thought. Microsoft doesn't charge for commercial use of IOT Core( there is some requirement to allow for updating) or VS2019(Community) and it recently announced 10 years of support for the IOT Core. Raspberry PI is supposed to be open source and , in my opinion should be, OS agnostic. In fact with a bit more documentation one could develop a quick and agile RTOS for very specific use, although it is a bit like reinventing the wheel in most cases. But mostly to leverage the VS2019, it cross compiles all kinds of languages and offers single step debugging to remote target. This makes it easy to build PC apps, android apps and RP4 apps, all at the same time.
Redkey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:07 pm"The Raspberry Pi SBC is not open hardware."
I didn't realize that. I had seen some schematics and some older Data sheets and I assumed that it was. Thanks for the qualcomm suggestion. They do offer some hardware boards that would probably work, but not priced like the RP4. But maybe I have that wrong also. When I was at Microcenter recently, the pricing went up with quantity. (?)
So if I decide not to swim upstream and go with Raspian, what Tool chain and language will I find the most support in?
PS. I have no real love for Microsoft, but they did seem to be making an effort to get a piece of the Pi!
Based on the board activity here, the fact that ”Pi” intentionally evokes Py(thon) and my own observations, Python is both the best supported and most popular language. I don’t use IDE’s (unless Emacs counts as one) but a few are preinstalled on Raspian so are presumably a good place to start.
It charges by virtue of the fact that you need a Windows operating system to develop for it.Microsoft doesn't charge for commercial use of IOT Core( there is some requirement to allow for updating) or VS2019(Community) and it recently announced 10 years of support for the IOT Core.
No. The Rasperry Pi is hardware. As such it is no more open source than pretty much all other harware out there. It is dependent on closed source firmware.Raspberry PI is supposed to be open source...
It has been done. More than once. Even without the best documentation.In fact with a bit more documentation one could develop a quick and agile RTOS for very specific use, although it is a bit like reinventing the wheel in most cases.
Fine idea. If you happy being dependent on MS.But mostly to leverage the VS2019,...
Quite so.So the Idea of a hardware manufacturer providing a BSP to microsoft isn't completely outrageous.
I you sure about that? There is a lot of Mac users out there. We should not be exclusory....it's a cost that most of the Pi developers have paid for one reason or another.
Why?If the foundation doesn't want a BSP, I would respect that, but I think they should just come out and say it outright.
Providing a “BSP” costs resources which can be better spent on Raspian.
It isn't rocket science, there is a desire, Microsoft isn't providing, so "I'll do it myself" suddenly becomes a viable method to get what one wants.Heater wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:33 pmRedkey,My thought is to ask why one would want to spend ones time supporting a closed source operating system from one of the worlds richest companies for free?Anyway I'm willing to donate some time to the project, if others are interested in doing the same. Thoughts?
I thought it was just that some guy was casting about for an idea for a master's thesis, and heard about this thing called Minix.I'm pretty sure that's how this thing called "Linux" came to be, there was a desire and the current operating systems weren't providing, so somebody went and did the work themselves.
MINIX's 16-bit design was not well adapted to the 32-bit features of the increasingly cheap and popular Intel 386 architecture for personal computers. In the early nineties a commercial UNIX operating system for Intel 386 PCs was too expensive for private users.
These factors and the lack of a widely adopted, free kernel provided the impetus for Torvalds' starting his project. He has stated that if either the GNU Hurd or 386BSD kernels had been available at the time, he likely would not have written his own.
Raspberry Pi Trading is a for-profit commercial business whose mission is to generate profit which pays its staff, funds further developments, and generates gift-aided income for the Foundation to further their goals.Heater wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:23 pmManufacturers like NXP are for profit corporations whose mission is to maximize profit. As such we can imagine why they might do such a thing.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a a charitable organization with an educational mission. As such I would be disgusted to find they use any of their resources to support a huge and profitable company, in a foreign country.
What do you mean? I love Microsoft, I use an MS Surface Pro 4 everyday. I use Github and VSCode everyday....particularly when it comes to Microsoft.
I don't see anyone arguing that it should be nor see how it ever would be. Getting Windows 10 IOT to work on a Pi 4B is hardly going to deliver that outcome.
I'm Trading rather than Foundation, but as far as I know, we do not intend to do a BSP for Win10 for the Pi4. Apart from a lack of any real profit motive, we have limited staff available and none with Win10IoT experience, and what staff we do have are pretty busy on more important stuff. We would probably be happy supporting MS with advice if they wanted to do it, but that would be the limit of our involvement.Redkey wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:42 pmThanks to everyone who responded and thanks for the great solutions. Here's a recent headline "NXP releases i.MX 6/7/8 BSPs for Windows 10 IoT Core" . and you'll find details of the agreement here. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot. So the Idea of a hardware manufacturer providing a BSP to microsoft isn't completely outrageous. My only remaining question is if Raspberrypi.org has a reason/desire/principle that makes it not want to provide this development path. Reading the current mission statement, such a release seems in line with the founders , however as was pointed out even though MS tools are free, It does require running a PC with windows which is not free. Having said that, it's a cost that most of the Pi developers have paid for one reason or another. If the foundation doesn't want a BSP, I would respect that, but I think they should just come out and say it outright.