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by RichardRussell
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:27 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

You need to be able to use the libraries before you can call a function in them, so you need to link them in at run time In the case of the C Run Time it's not an issue, because the ARM edition of BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 is written in C! Indeed it's precisely for this reason that calling CRT function...
by RichardRussell
Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:17 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

No idea. You will have to ask DavidS about that. I'm sure he will explain how it would be smaller, faster and more portable... He'll probably say that printf is not available under RISC OS (and as a user of that OS, portability isn't a major concern)! I'll continue to discourage, and not provide sp...
by RichardRussell
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:47 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

Nothing stops a user from using kernel calls directly for doing things he has permission to do. OK, but why would one choose to write out the text using a kernel call rather than, say, printf in the CRT? printf is much more portable: it works on every OS that BBC BASIC for SDL 2.0 will run on I thi...
by RichardRussell
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:52 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

Is using SWI 0 with R7 having the call number still allowable for Linux System Calls from the assembler in you BBC BASIC? My understanding is that SWIs are kernel calls in Linux and therefore not usable from user-mode code; is that not right? Certainly I've made no specific provision for them, I'm ...
by RichardRussell
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:10 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

It sounds like I should have no trouble using the BBC BASIC assembler on your implementation. There's an assembler 'Hello world!' program supplied with BBCSDL which should give you an idea of whether it will be suitable. Apart from the selection of appropriate source code for the CPU (64-bit x86, 3...
by RichardRussell
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:01 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

As I understand the challenge it is to write an editor that actually uses the Window Manager that is native to the desktop Operating System John said that my native BBC BASIC program appears to meet the terms of the challenge, so that is apparently not the case. What subset of the ARM AARCH32 ISA d...
by RichardRussell
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:44 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

It's just that when someone uses the word "language" to refer to the programming language and the run-time environment it operates in and all the features that implementation provides via modules/extensions whatever, then they start to fall into that generalization. It's all in the context. If you ...
by RichardRussell
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:56 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

I don't want to pick on you in particularly but this kind of statement drive me crazy. Sorry, but you are missing the point. The whole purpose of a challenge, surely, is to be able to make some judgement about the strengths and weaknesses of one language compared with another. An excellent example ...
by RichardRussell
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:00 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

The goal is to show how desktop GUI is done. The editor challenge is just the stage for that goal. You can do whatever you like with my program (SDLIDE.bbc) and the associated library (dlglib.bbc). Both are written entirely in BBC BASIC and there is no reliance on any external GUI library, framewor...
by RichardRussell
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:13 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

Could it be used to edit non-BBC BASIC? The syntax colouring and indentation are BBC BASIC-specific, of course, and there is a line-length limit of about 250 characters. Apart from that it will probably be OK with source code for a different BASIC (e.g. ScriptBasic), you did ask for a 'code editor'...
by RichardRussell
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:37 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

Any chance the both of you could collaborate on a submission? If you are happy to accept an existing program, rather than something written specifically for the challenge, then my SDLIDE.bbc meets the requirements as I understand them: Menu: YES Toolbar: YES Rich Text edit control: Not Rich Text bu...
by RichardRussell
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:49 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

I mean, what is a window? It's a region of memory that you draw to. The only OS-dependent code would be getting and displaying that surface and BBC BASIC uses SDL2 for that, I'd imagine. Everything else such as mouse movement/clicks, keyboard usage should be exposed to the user in any decent BASIC....
by RichardRussell
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:37 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

How do I do that? How do I create a window, handle menus, handle Window Manager events, handle messages, etc in a way that is OS independant without using libraries, while maintaining compatibility with RISC OS? By doing everything in BASIC! BBC BASIC is more than capable of implementing the full s...
by RichardRussell
Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:38 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

And the reason I am hesitant to make a submission, as I would be using native code and doing so in BBC BASIC V on RISC OS. Unless you want to use embedded assembler code, it ought to be relatively easy to write it in 'generic' BBC BASIC so that it will run in BBC BASIC for Windows , BBC BASIC for S...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:31 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

After all, the spirit of the challenge is to actually show how the language's code looks, how readable it is, etc. True, but the opportunity for showcasing a language's 'unique' features is limited if you are constrained by the interface imposed by GMP. I reckon the BBC BASIC Fibo program is quite ...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:47 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

ScriptBasic and I had a disagreement about this. But I decided that if a big integer module was created for ScriptBasic and included in the standard install, then it would qualify. No matter if it used GMP under the hood, that is an implementation detail at that point. It's that solution I was refe...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:05 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

I agree, otherwise one ends up with challenge entries that look like... Since you mention it, I felt that it was a flaw of the Fibonacci challenge too, as there was nothing to prevent a 'solution' consisting of calling GMP library routines. Writing a BigNum library from scratch in BBC BASIC (which ...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:19 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

I agree, otherwise one ends up with challenge entries that look like #!/bin/sh exec emacs "$@" Quite. It ends up being a test of how easy it is to embed a library widget, which ought either to be straightforward (if the language supports that kind of thing) or impossible (if everything is sandboxed...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:14 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

If you don't want to participate, that's fine too. The kind of challenge that would be more likely to attract a submission from me is one that specifies that only native code (including supplied standard libraries) can be used, in other words specifically excluding the use of external libraries and...
by RichardRussell
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:07 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

ScriptBasic wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:51 pm
Check out the spec. for the GUI Editor challenge
The only spec I can find refers to 'Rich Text edit control' and 'predefined dialogs'. That appears to rule out a native code solution (in BBC BASIC or anything else) since by definition it won't be using any 'predefined' library widgets.
by RichardRussell
Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:37 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

ScriptBasic wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:56 pm
Will you be submitting a GUI editor for the challenge?
What challenge? I generally don't take an interest in challenges (I leave that to my users). The Liberty BASIC GUI editor FreeForm will be hard to beat (it runs in my LB Booster too), if existing programs are eligible.
by RichardRussell
Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:37 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Introduction to BBC BASIC
Replies: 544
Views: 24790

Re: Introduction to BBC BASIC

In another thread, about another BASIC (!), there are some examples of how to incorporate GUI features from a toolkit like GTK or IUP. Whilst you can do that (in BBC BASIC too if you want to) it seems to me that it's neither a good demonstration of the capabilities of your BASIC nor conducive to gua...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:50 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: SB-IUP
Replies: 18
Views: 1065

Re: SB-IUP

ScriptBasic wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:01 am
This is what the ScriptBasic for Windows IDE/Debugger looks like. It was written in VB6.
The ScriptBasic IDE/Debugger was written in Visual BASIC? I've heard it all now! :roll:
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:01 pm
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Searching for BASIC
Replies: 126
Views: 5137

Re: Searching for BASIC

The problem is scaling to one texture using nearest neighbour to get the integer scale, then scaling that texture up onto the screen using bilinear. I can get it to work on one of my windows boxes, but not the other two - nor can my 2015 MBP do it either which is disappointing. I'm pretty sure that...
by RichardRussell
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:33 am
Forum: Other programming languages
Topic: Searching for BASIC
Replies: 126
Views: 5137

Re: Searching for BASIC

Even many general utilties in BBC BASIC make heavy use of graphics. I agree that when you know you always have graphics available, irrespective of the platform on which it is running, there is a temptation to 'enhance' programs that don't really need any graphics at all with a splash of color or so...

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