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by tomo
Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:21 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: Using Node.js as an educational language?
Replies: 13
Views: 3871

Re: Using Node.js as an educational language?

<t>JavaScript is as complicated and as tricky as you want it to be (apart from simply being tricky because it's a typeless scripting language). On the other hand, it can be as simple as you want it to be. Don't want classes? Don't use them. You can easily live with functions alone or even without th...
by tomo
Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:13 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

Chromatix said:


Okay, that *is* shocking.


Oh yes. My nephew does this in school and he's seven.
by tomo
Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:13 pm
Forum: General programming discussion
Topic: Best first language choice
Replies: 140
Views: 32451

Re: Best first language choice

<t>akc42 said: <br/> <br/> <br/> but assuming we are talking on a RaspPi I would start with Javascript.  I would set up Apache to serve a prepared web page from the users home directory<br/> <br/> <br/> Of course, that"s if you want to teach web programming. However, to use and program in JavaScript...
by tomo
Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:24 am
Forum: General programming discussion
Topic: Best first language choice
Replies: 140
Views: 32451

Re: Best first language choice

<t>Chromatix said: <br/> <br/> I would be perfectly happy if it disappeared off the face of the planet.<br/> Well, I'm pretty sure that all of us have some memories of past traumas laying somewhere in our subconsciusness. And if we sum all our curses and death wishes and make them real, there'll be ...
by tomo
Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:16 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>spock said: <br/> <br/> <br/> but how would you do it tomo? it's impossible! the arm cpu and the gpu isn't a z80 cpu. and linux isn't some basic interpreter that fits in 20kb of rom.<br/> <br/> <br/> Well, if you insist. Not impossible at all. Why would it be? Of course, using a modern OS prevent...
by tomo
Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:01 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>tufty said: <br/> <br/> Yes.  Yes it is.<br/> Tufty, hold a bit your horses. Most of things you wrote up there are cute, but irrelevant. And programming really hasn't change that much. Not to mention that "programming" just isn't that "one thing" you are talking about, but there are many differen...
by tomo
Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:23 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>spock said: <br/> <br/> but i don't see what BASIC has to do with it? have some of you BASIC proponents even looked at modern alternatives?<br/> What are the "modern alternatives"? Is it just about the fascination with a "newer stuff" in general or something to do with "can do this" and "can't do...
by tomo
Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:44 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>pvgb said: <br/> <br/> <br/> No. I fully agree we are not in the Eighties. The picture was brighter in the Eighties.<br/> <br/> <br/> Exactly. You couldn't put it better. I think we do want to bring some of the 80's back into computing, since what makes the problem is that we've lost it.<br/> <br...
by tomo
Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:29 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>spock said: <br/> <br/> <br/> if you say that current variants of BASIC support OO then you can also count C# as current version of C.<br/> <br/> <br/> Well, you could count it as a weird variant of Java, though.<br/> <br/> <br/> [C# -> C] is exactly the same as [visual basic .NET -> gwbasic]. <b...
by tomo
Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:06 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<r>Either way, there is still plenty of room left for something vs Ruby vs C vs BASIC vs something. And, of course, let's not forget the Assembler (doesn't matter which and when, really) vs the rest all together.<br/> <br/> In the meanwhile, I'm just finishing my last web application, doing all the ...
by tomo
Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:45 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Again no proof, just a thought... but doesn't having more high-level construncts mean leaving more space for compiler optimizations... and the other way around... more low-level code means more tied hands for the compiler/optimizer? Of course, having more space to do something doesn't mean that i...
by tomo
Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:56 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Some points very well made above. I can't even imagine doing any enterprise application we do at work in some kind of assembler. If there is any volunteer eager to prove assembler is better (or even sane) here, too, I'd be very much amused to check his/her progress once in a while... There is a r...
by tomo
Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:12 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>I see some complicate a lot with these "rights" and "wrongs". What made old home computers and their BASIC so attractive to me back then was how well the language was "integrated" into the computer. Plug it into the wall, turn it on... and... here you are... type, program, interact with the syste...
by tomo
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:17 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Quote from DavidS on December 15, 2011, 07:07<br/> Most kids that learn other languages never look at assembly, they just assume that assembler is an arcane art that is unneeded. I wrote my first assembly language program for a 68000 based computer when I was 9 years old and still in grade school...
by tomo
Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:04 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Quote from tufty on December 14...<br/> <br/> While I agree that there are other o.k. alternatives to BASIC in this case, I don't really agree with the idea that throwing all the unnecesarry bloat - which one might use or benefit from when writing a business or scientific or any other real-life a...
by tomo
Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:46 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<r> Quote from tufty<br/> and there now are a multitude of vastly better languages filling the niche BASIC aimed for - it's time to let it die. If it won't die, take it out the back of the shed and give it 2 shotgun shells to the back of the head.<br/> <br/> And you've got me straight into my heart ...
by tomo
Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:31 am
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Quote from willrandship on December 13, 2011, 03:48<br/> BASIC /.../ overcomplicates future language learning. <br/> <br/> But... why exactly? No, really, why exactly? And... are we talking here about the BASICs of the 80' with mandatory line numbers and gosubs or some kind of an object capable V...
by tomo
Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:12 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>I could agree with many things written. But I still wonder what's the aim of raspberry pi and using it for teaching? What's the goal? Is it to produce skilled windows programmers by the end of the course (I guess no)? Web programmers, perl programmers, GTK+ programmers, system script coders... ?<...
by tomo
Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:58 pm
Forum: Staffroom, classroom and projects
Topic: BASIC - more harmful than useful?
Replies: 899
Views: 146070

Re: BASIC - more harmful than useful?

<t>Hello all! I'd like to share my thoughts on this topic...<br/> <br/> I'm a 90% java man and very satisfied that way. Additional 5% is advanced javascript. At least proffessionally. I do some C/C++ with microcontrollers in my free time. Did very little assembler with AVR. Wrote a small bash or per...

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